Lit Do you like the new canon?

G

Just ignore me then.

However I will continue to critise what I dam well like

 

Will the two of you stop?

 

No, no, break out the beers and popcorn, this'll equal the World Cup.

 

Fine. It's not worth any further effort. No matter how much @Jedi Ben wants a Thunderdome.

 

Aww, I never get to have any fun. SO UNFAIR!

(Bonus points to those who get the joke on the last two words.)

 

I remember when Star Trek had its massive split with the 2009 film (again by JJ Abrams). Fans calmed down when they were told their old universe would continue, which Star Trek Online and now Star Trek Discovery are doing.

I suggested calling the new Trek universe the Neroverse, but it ended up getting boring names like Prime Timeline and Kelvin Timeline.

Star Wars has equally boring names, Legends universe and Canon universe. We should be calling them the Splinterverse and the Kyloverse, after the first EU novel and the main villain of the new canon respectively.

 

Awww man, I guess we just have to get beyond thunderdome

 

I thought the Aftermath books were stupid from reading a tiny preview and the Wookieepedia summaries. But then I actually read them and found them to be really enjoyable books with some great characters.


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So you'd rather take a machete to Legends, rather than preserving it wholesale in its own continuity? What's the point, if so many details would have to be changed?

And the Star Trek analogy doesn't work because, as far as I know, the motion pictures weren't intruding on existing content later in the timeline; they were just continuing the story in the same way Heir to the Empire did. The sequels would necessarily have to be squeezed in between the NJO and Dark Nest, which is a pretty specific area of the timeline.

 

My ST would take place in 44 ABY to match actor ages of Carrie, Harrison and Mark (who were already older than their characters in the OT). Obviously Legacy would be decanonized.

The 44 ABY year fixes a lot of problems--Mara Jade is gone, Jacen and Anakin are gone. They don't need to be seen and can have passing mentions that don't matter to the general audience.

With a line that Jaina killed Luke's son and fell to the Dark Side and Luke disbanded the Jedi in grief, we once again get a lone Luke without an Order per George's treatments. Obviously Jag would have left Jaina after she turned evil, but Jag doesn't even need to be mentioned in the film but in some obscure tie-in.

Jaina can make a passing reference on killing her twin who went mad because being a Jedi was too much for him, and her younger brother being killed in the Vong Wars. After what happened to her brothers she realizes being a Jedi is a thankless life and hates Luke and the entire Order (more motivation than what we're getting for Kylo now honestly)--provides context for her falling to the Dark Side, but nothing the audience needs to go back and read.

Basically it can all be recapped as: In 44 ABY after Chewie is found alive, Jaina as Kira Ren would kill Ben Skywalker as her first step to the Dark Side, and Luke disbanding the Jedi and going to hiding in grief could have given us the same ST we are getting now.

A dark Jaina as a reminder of who Rey could be would mirror the dynamic between Vader and Luke in the OT, instead of the frankly disturbing Reylo material we are getting in the current ST.

I would envision Merlin actress Katie McGrath as dark Jaina and she expressed interest in SW back in the day: http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/st...n-katie-mcgrath-wants-star-wars-bad-guy-role/ , but alas it never happened.

 

That still ruins Legacy and all the set-up the books were doing to reach that point, and spoils the intent of Chewie's death in Vector Prime. I'd say it'd also ruin Jaina's character, considering she was meant to be the Sword of the Jedi and actively fought against the Solo-kid-gone-bad. It's still chopping up existing material to wedge it into a gap that doesn't fit.

And there isn't any Reylo material in the current ST.

 

I understand that; I have a whole fan story in my head where Luke, Jaina, Ben and Jag found Plagueis' lost temple and discovered that draining the life of a Force-sensitive or Jedi could regenerate cells in wounded and ill people.

Jag is fatally wounded in a Sith trap, and in desperation Jaina drains Ben to save him. For this murder she is exiled from the Republic (and Jag leaves Jaina) because Luke can't bring himself to imprison her for life. Knowing that the Jedi have no defense against this fatal power, Luke disbands the Jedi and goes to Tython to try to research a defense.

Yes it does ruin the original EU setup and the original intent of Chewie's death. But I think in the end EU fans would have understood and been happier than having the universe they loved be ended with a whimper.

I should have written Reylo vibes, not actual Reylo material, in the current ST.

 

I still think they should’ve just filmed the Dark Nest trilogy and told the audience that didn’t understand it that they had to read the books.


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Isn’t that what they have to do with the ST anyway?

But it’s a new timeline, so it’s fine reading all of the extra stuff this time.

 

People are mad that Luke wasn't portrayed exactly how he was in Legends. They'd be incensed if the ST started actively buggering around with Legends characters and stories and called it a canon continuation of that timeline.

 

To add to my Star Trek movies analogy above, it would have been controversial like killing spock and kirk was, but I think Fandom would be less fractured. We see the fractures of the current situation here on this very thread.

Khans star trek 2 setup also ruined his space seed ending and turned kirk into a moron who never checked up on khan, but it worked out.

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Below I've copied sidv88's proposal for combining Legends and the ST, spoiler-ed for length:

Spoiler

My reaction:



I once read a post that tried to say that the Nolan Batman movies and the Tim Burton/Schumacer Batman movies were in the same universe. That's what your proposal reminds me of. It's combining two things that so clearly are meant to be separate, no matter how hard it has to stretch. As @Coherent Axe said, what's point of putting the Legends continuity on the big screen if you have to render it unrecognizable? I mean, if they announced a Legends movie that was 2 hours of Trioculus and Jaxxon the Green Rabbit arguing with Mount Sorrow about what to order for lunch, would you really be happy because "Hey, it's continuing Legends!"

Also, I can't help but notice the irony that you're claiming that your plan would be less divisive . . . on a forum where several posters have disagreed with your proposed plan. Anyway I don't think the fandom is any more divided now that it was, say, when the prequels came out. All fandoms fight all the time, period. AND you keep mentioning Star Trek movies that built off the shows as evidence. Newsflash: more people watch TV than read books.

Finally, this really bothered me:

Yeah, and in that alternate universe, someone who really loved the Legacy comics is insisting that the "Dark Jania" movie wouldn't have bombed if they had just adapted Legacy instead. Sometimes I think that when people talk about continuing Legends, they really mean "continuing the bits of Legends I personally liked"

 

This is just my response now to the whole...Make it all One canon thing

 

George Lucas hardly matters any more. I'm happy with the EU being discontinued if the alternative is the ST being canon to the EU and Legacy not.

 

What I'm hearing here is "Legends should never have been de-canonized, but only certain parts of it should be kept"...

... which I think is pretty much what has been happening?

The real issue seems to be that the parts kept and the parts discarded don't line up with what the individual finds to be sucky or good. But I think we can all agree that there are things in both Legends and Canon that are both sucky and good, and no two people are going to cherry-pick the same exact set of good/sucky dichotomies. So, just as would have happened if Legends had continued, each individual is gonna like or dislike certain things according to their own tastes; if the bad outweighs the good, it's easy enough to step away.

But when we start saying "Legends should have been selectively preserved", we really aren't arguing for anything other than what has actually happened, we're just disagreeing with how it's been done, which would've happened either way.

 

I think another problem is at the end of the day is there is two much Binary thinking going on.

Canon

Legends

When in reality we have

Disney Era (Canon): Everything (with the exception of Lego Freekmaker Adventures and a few grade school books) being all connected to one another and 'counting' whatever that really means at the end of the day.

Legends: Which is made up of
George Canon: The Fianl say on everything plus Clone Wars
Book Canon:
Game Canon:

I forget the other tiers....And yeah sure they connected to one another but when George Canon said something the others didn't (Like when TCW reconned a bunch of stuff) that was it. So if you want Legends back...Really I think it's more do you just want the Book series back, because Techinally Clone Wars is Legends....Force Unleashed is Legends (And it's canoncity is questionable)

Now I'm not saying that another book post Crucible is a bad thing but I think by boiling it down to Legends v Canon or just talking about Legends and Canon..Remember Legends isn't that straightforward ...Neither is canon either to be fair IDK if Forces of Destiny really counts or not but who knows.

 

Fair enough, it seems that if this proposal is divisive here then that division would be magnified in a universe where it became the actual ST. My proposal that it would be less divisive may be incorrect, but stemmed from the belief that 8's controversy was over the perceived butchering of Luke, whereas a controversial butchering of Jaina might be less divisive because she's a less iconic and recognizable character than Luke, being primarily a prose character.

Also, I love Legacy. I'm not about keeping canon just EU bits I like, and don't know how you could have gotten that from my posts. In my proposal, even Waru and the Crystal Star would still be canon. I would never want to decanonize Legacy, but unless Han, Leia, and Luke are going to be frozen in carbonite to survive to Cade and Ania's time, it just couldn't be canon for any potential ST featuring the big 3 that would stay in EU continuity. And I'd rather have just Legacy decanonized, no matter how much I love it, than the EU apocalypse we ended up getting.

 

Exactly! Legends covers about 40 years of material in all forms of media, often contradicting each other. On the quality scale they run from awful to amazing, and no two fans are going agree on which is which. Let's say Fan A, Fan B, and Fan C are all clamoring "bring back Legends!" and they get their wish. It's announced that The Force Unleashed III is being released. Fan A is thrilled because he loved those games, Fan B hated those games and was hoping for a continuation of Jania Solo's story, and Fan C is just disappointed because he wanted someone to go back and write a proper ending for the Dark Times comics which neither Fan A or Fan B care about.

Good story is more important than Canon vs Legends. They could publish a story about Kyle Katarn doing his laundry, and I don't think you'd see anyone defending it as "It's Legends, so it's automatically great!"

 

That's fair, I did make an assumption that you didn't care about Legacy, that was a leap on my part. But I did see it as a good example on how no one would agree on which bits to keep and which bits to toss. It varies from fan to fan.

Mis-characterization of Jania probably wouldn't receive as much backlash as the perceived mis- characterization of Luke, since like you said Luke is a more well known character. But I think that if they chose to go the route of Luke giving up on the Jedi, wether they incorporated Legends or not, controversy around that decision would be inevitable.

Ultimately for both Legends and Canon, there are bits I like and bits I hate. I just enjoy them both on their own merits.

 

Hey, that's me