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Lit Do you like the new canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    You say "Han's dice, anyone?". I say "Remember how Saw Gerrara was mentioned in Bloodlines before Rouge One even came out?" Or how The Darth Vader comic showed that Geonosis had been sterilized in 2015, the Rouge One Visual Guide mentioned that Saw had been exposed to "Genosian pesticide" in 2016, and Star Wars:Rebels finally showed this happening in 2017? Or that the Star Wars comics just wrapped up an arc where both series where centered on the Mon Calamari and referenced each other? Or how Battlefront II directly referenced (and even depicted) some of the events of Shattered Empire and the Aftermath books?

    Sure there's been continuity errors, but the Story Group never promised there would be no continuity errors, ever. I think they've been doing a decent job.

    Lastly, one pet peeve: you sure said "Disney" a lot, and talked about Disney "giving" us novels. Disney didn't write the tidbit about Han's dice, Pablo Hidalgo did. Disney didn't write novels. I've seen people complaining about Battlefront mention not DICE, not EA, but Disney. I feel like we're at the point where anything involving Star Wars, good or bad, is attributed to Disney. The Star Wars graham crackers you bought were stale? Disney did it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  2. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Adding to this, remember the episode of Rebels where Kanan mentions the Mandalorians who served the Republic in the Clone Wars, and how we got a comic book about it the morning that episode aired?
     
  3. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Did I miss something? Yes Saw was on Geonosis, but he seemed healthy all the way up to his last appearance in Rebels. Then suddenly he was a mess in Rogue One. Was the exposure to the pesticide blink and you'll miss it? And presumably the pesticide takes a long time to take effect?

    Also why didn't it affect the Rebels gang? Or will Ezra suddenly get sick out there with Thrawn...?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  4. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    I'll admit, even as someone who likes both continuities (Legends MAYBE a bit more), I'm... concerned with the direction the franchise is going in. In just a year and a half we've had the sudden death of one of the main actors, a video game scandal so large real-world lawmakers noticed it, the most polarizing film in the franchise's history and its first financial failure released back to back, and fan rabidity reaching such levels that the real-life actors have begun fearing for their real-life personal safety from angry fans. Surely something needs to be... done, right?
     
  5. revan772

    revan772 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2014
    I am not really into the new canon as much as I want to be. I keep up with comics and books (as much as I can with the books anyway), and before I always kept up with the game stories. However, after playing part of the first mission of BFII, I put the controller down and never went back. Just not a fan, which saddens me. Also, most of the books are boring as heck. I want to give credit where credit is due though. Lost Stars may be one of the best, if not the best, Star Wars works today. I liked it better then most movies.

    I liked Heir to the Jedi, Lords of the Sith, and Catalyst decently too. Most books, though, feel like they do not matter. That is a huge problem I am having. And most comics are boring to me too. (Star Wars, Leia, Han Solo, Lando DoN) I did love the old Lando series, Aphra, and both Vader comics. But even things like the Ahsoka book did not really grab my interest like I thought it could.

    The tv shows... Rebels I love. FoD I liked parts of and what it added to the story, but how they where told I thought was garbage.

    The movies? I always loved 7, RO was my least favourite of all Star Wars movies. I do not like endings where everyone dies. 8 was okay, I like it a lot better then I use to. I mostly have a problem with Luke dying, but again not saying that it made 8 a bad movie. Just made it to where I have a bad taste in my mouth now. Solo... wow. I cannot believe it did as bad as it did, because I absolutely loved that movie. One of my favourite Star Wars movies. Hoping to see more Qi'ra, more Maul, and just more of everything from that movie.

    IDK, maybe i am just picky. But I do not necessarily think that is a bad thing. Could the new canon be better? Of course it could. Do I dislike the new canon? No... but I think it is very boring, and if it keeps going in the direction it has been, I may jump ship to some other multi media story. (Like delve deeper into Halo or something.) Though I really do not want to do that. I want to like the new canon more then I do.
     
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  6. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    This is the first time I've seen someone summarize all of the troubles the new canon has run into so succinctly (death of Carrie aside, as that tragedy was no one's fault). We in general see each of these news items 1 at a time, so the whole convergence of dilemmas doesn't really sink in. But when it's all listed out--wow, it's bad.

    Despite the supposed hate of the prequels, that era between 1999-2005 seems like a golden age now. I miss it. :(
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  7. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 19, 2016
    I was ready to buy BF2017 when it came out, but the microtransactions and such were just insulting. I just didn't want to support a game like that. I was really excited for the campaign, but oh, it isn't really from an Imperial loyalist's perspective. And, oh, the Heroes are somehow shoehorned in. sigh.
     
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  8. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Why this confusion over the pesticide incident is beyond me. Saw most likely got exposed to the pesticide in a very specific part of Geonosis while he and his team were investigating it. It's not really all that hard to work out. Either that or he returned at another point and got exposed then. Pick one.
     
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  9. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 20, 2016
    I don't think Ahmed Best would agree it was quite as much of a golden age. Or Jake Lloyd. Or R.A. Salvatore. Or even Lucas himself, really.
     
  10. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    It was a golden age for the fans, but you're right not so much the people you stated. However, the troubles were temporary except for Jake Lloyd. I wonder what happened to him after the arrest. I feel really bad for him. :(
     
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  11. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 20, 2016
    Apparently he's in a psychiatric facility with schizophrenia. And Best mentioned in his Twitter post that he still struggles with those issues, so it's not exactly something any of them seem to have got over. Even Lucas has cited the prequel hate as one of the reasons why he stopped making films and decided to pursue retirement, and that was over a decade later.
     
  12. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I didn't know that about Ahmed Best :(

    Since Lucas doesn't seem to use social media, it seems the prequel hate he is referring to that made him re-evaluate filmmaking was actually the mainstream media and not the fans (unless there are incidents of people attacking him on the street I didn't hear about).

    Lucas could have easily kept the franchise and hired another director and scriptwriter to make his treatments (I believe this was even suggested to him after ROTS). But I think it was the business as a whole he got tired of running perhaps. For instance, JK Rowling is involved with the new Potter films, but she's not doing the directing. I wonder if Lucas couldn't have done that.
     
  13. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 20, 2016
    Social media isn't the only means people can reach out to creators, but he was certainly getting heaps of criticism from fans and media alike, so I can see that souring the experience regardless of what form it took and on what media.

    As Kathy Kennedy tells it, Lucas found himself unable to work on the sequels in an advisory capacity; he either had to be in total control or not at all, so he chose to step back -- hence his initial "messy divorce" comments.
     
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  14. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    Part of me thinks that a Legends revival (shouldn't be too confusing if they make it clear there are two continuities) might help mitigate some of the backlash, but another part of me thinks that nothing good could come of giving the rabids what they want. The last thing we need is for them to feel vindicated in their methods...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  15. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    I would love a few new legacy series, like the Jaina Solo series. Why not?

    The Legends timeline was for the most part complete. The Prequel era was packed full of content. The post RotJ era ended with the big three retiring. Yeah, I think it could be done, especially with the right authors. Some have retired. Sadly. Aaron Allston died in 2014, but Luceno is still doing SW, as are a few others.
     
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  16. Sigismund

    Sigismund Jedi Youngling

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    Jan 16, 2018
    still less disappointing than the BF2 book...
    god how I dislike that book, what a wasted opportunity
     
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  17. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Here's a good thread tweet about NuCanon







     
  18. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    With all due respect, I disagree with Mothma being redefined in a better way in the new canon. In Rebels, she basically just shows up to the pre-existing Rebel group and says she wants to join them. It didn't feel like she was a "founder" at all, unlike in the old EU. The show called Rebels featured surprisingly little Mothma.

    There's nothing other than 1 scene in Rogue One showing her coordinating with Bail Organa. In the episode where Saw is kicked out of the Alliance, Bail Organa was not involved at all!

    We needed to see Bail and Mothma working together regularly in Rebels along with Saw, then see Saw get kicked out. We needed to see them formalize the Alliance--the EU handled this with the Corellian Treaty, something that never happened in canon. They needed to show Dantooine base! Dantooine could have been Saw's base before he got kicked out of the Alliance--why didn't they go with that.

    I'm sorry, but in my opinion Mothma and the Alliance in new canon is just a line of wasted opportunities.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  19. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Agree. Although I never cared much for Mon Mothma, she was certainly fleshed out in the old continuity. And in the new, she's anything but "pragmatic." Wasn't it Mon Mothma who immediately demilitarized the New Republic in the new storyline? That's like the most idealistic, idiotic decision she could make. Interestingly(in the old eu), some of the objections to the new Jedi order/jedi counsel being reestablished was that Luke's Jedi were small in number, and the N.R. already had a military, an intelligence agency, a diplomatic corp, etc, and that Luke's Jedi were not needed, because in the old republic, there were 10's of thousands of Jedi that could handle those roles.

    In the new eu, Mon Mothma's New Republic has ....1 Jedi.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  20. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    Um, what? "She basically just shows up to the pre-existing Rebel group and says she wants to join them" is not even remotely close to what happened in "Secret Cargo," the episode I... think? ...you're referring to.
    The show wasn't about her, so that would be expected.
    There was no episode where Saw is kicked out of the Alliance. I don't think he was ever in it.
    That would have meant spending a lot of time away from the actual subject of the show. Would that stuff have been nice to see? Sure. But we don't need to watch the Alliance be formed to know that it was - or for it to develop Mothma's character.
     
  21. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I saw every episode of Rebels, I was talking about Secret Cargo. She had just fled from the Empire after a speech about Ghorman. She mentioned that just before this she spent her life in the Senate. There was a pre-existing Rebel group and Mothma said she wanted to stand on the front lines with them. So, what did I get wrong?

    I will quote Mothma herself:
    Sometimes I envy pilots like you, traveling through the stars.
    You can always leave your problems far behind you.
    Can't imagine you running from your problems.
    I've spent my life in the Senate trying to do good, to preserve the rights of the people.
    Little good it's done.
    The Emperor has crushed freedom over the years, bit by bit.
    I've opposed him where I could, but I've begun to see that the fight cannot be won in the Senate.
    The stakes are a bit higher out here on the front lines.
    Instead of being outvoted, you're outgunned.
    Life or death.
    It's a new experience, being on the run.
    But if that's what it takes Whatever it takes, this Rebellion is worth it.


    Mon Mothma outright says that being on the run is a new experience as of Season 3 when the Rebels had been operating for years. Your quote
    does not jive with the actual quotes from Secret Cargo I posted above. She does indeed show up and says she wants to join them, going so far as to say "I envy pilots like you." I just don't understand how one could say it's "not even remotely close to what happened" when the actual episode and quotes shown above show otherwise.

    The show should have been named Ghost then. It's a bit misleading--imagine a tv show called X-Men where Xavier finally shows up in the third season to tell mutants that he's going to stand with them now (despite never being mentioned in the first couple of seasons).

    What I meant that Saw had that big holohead talking smack to Mothma and after their fight they had nothing to do with each other. Mothma then says in RO that Saw is an extremist and they need Jyn. I think you know what I mean regarding Saw being "kicked out".
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  22. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 3

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    Aug 3, 2013
    That's revisionist. Mothma was far, far better in Legends.
     
  23. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    I'm at a loss to understand how that dialogue supports your assertion that Canon Mon Mothma had nothing to do with the Rebellion before deciding to join in "Secret Cargo," as opposed to the long-established canon - pretty much left unchanged from Legends, except for moving the date of her leaving the Senate forward by one year - that she had been instrumental in its formation and covertly opposing Palpatine for almost two decades. If she's only now just showing up out of nowhere to join the Rebellion, how does she have the clout to organize the Rebel Alliance? Her saying "being on the run is a new experience" refers to the fact that she will now be leading from the front lines instead of fighting for the cause from the relative protection of the Senate.

    Besides the date change, the only real difference between the Mon Mothma of Legends and the Mon Mothma of canon in the post-ROTS years is the fact that canon, in making a much sharper distinction between "The Rebellion" and "The Rebel Alliance" than Legends did, depicts Mothma as being far more of a singular driving force behind the formation of the latter than Legends did the former.
    Rebels was about a group of Rebels. The title fulfilled its end of the bargain. The fact that we didn't get an episode devoted to Bail and Mon sitting at a table hammering out the details of the Alliance does not make the title misleading.
    If that's what you meant, okay, but that now leaves me confused as to why Bail needed to be involved in what is essentially Mothma hanging up on Saw during a phone call.
     
  24. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    The Rebel alliance is a rebellion made up of rebels. The terms are used interchangeably in the OT. They all mean the same thing.
     
  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    If you go by The Rebel Files, Mon Mothma "issues a motion to formally censure Saw Gerrara and cut him off from any contact with our forces" at some point. If the files are assumed to be in chronological order, that bit is shortly before Secret Cargo's events. And it's after the episode where Saw meets the Spectres on Geonosis.

    In a memo to Bail, she says "Our Rebel Alliance will not include Saw Gerrara or his partisans" - she's been working with Rebel groups for years prior to this - but in Secret Cargo, the groups are all being brought together - becoming "The Rebel Alliance".
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018