Lit Do you like the new canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. MikeF Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    I've enjoyed reading the "YA and...younger still material" as someone who's an adult, but my coworker said it's been an awesome time having the "younger still material" to have with his son who's hitting that age where chapters is the next step in his reading development.
  2. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
    I'd still take it over the PT every single time.
    masterskywalker likes this.
  3. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Oh that's so very cool to hear.
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  5. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    Hmm. TFA suffers from the same problem that TFM did - it could never succeed in matching the (high) expectations heaped upon it. All that tells you is that it was less than perfection.

    You've got to look outside of the films to properly weigh things up. Judging new canon on TFA alone is misleading and suggests the whole new continuity is just derivative/recycled. And that's just not the case, as I see it.

    Also, people have the habit of being "selective" with their comparisons to the EU...
  6. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
    Compare the best of your side to the worst of their side. Classic.
  7. vong333 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    It's difficult for me. On one end, the old EU was very good, and while their were things that I didn't agree with. The bottom line was that there was this deep connection between the novels, comic books, and video games in a way that no other franchise had. Granted, it had problems, but, nothing came close to it. The new canon, is a bit bland, especially on the novel front. More juvenile books, very limited adult novelization and the stories aren't really shakers per say. I think that Marvel comics has been the winner of this new EU. They keep coming out with stuff that tie's in and mesh with the movies and soon with the tv series, but, no matter what its not like the canon from before. At least for me whom has followed the EU since its initial creation back in 1991 with Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire.
  8. Darth_Henning Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 4
    When the reboot was announced I was not a fan. In fact, some of you may remember I had an article on 1138 commenting that it wasn't necessary to have a total reboot (partial was sufficient).

    That said, I'm a Star Wars fan and I still eventually got around to checking things out.

    First off Rebels: The first season was PAINFULLY childish and poorly written. It was a complete farce IMHO after the masterpiece TCW had grown into. However, its improved in each of its two subsequent seasons, and while it may not be on the same playing field, its become at least enjoyable for an adult fan. Especially towards the end of Season 3. Also, ya know, Thrawn is awesome.

    Novels: I haven't read all of them, but Bloodlines, Battlefront, and Heir are nice supplemental books to add to the universe. The Aftermath trilogy is a good idea, that actually would have fit well into the traditional EU between the X-wing comics and X-wing novels which for some reason was always an ill-defined era. Sadly, the writing style of those books is atrocious, which makes what is a great concept into a slog of a read.

    But of course, the classic EU had its dregs and gems too, so that's pretty much a wash in terms of quality (I actually like New Rebellion but anyway)

    Comics: I admit to only having skimmed but I have nothing but good things to say. But comics have almost always been a strong part of the franchise.

    Rogue One: This really captured the feel of Star Wars. Though I wish that Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors had at least had a side part in this, its honestly one of my two favourite Star Wars movies currently.

    TFA: This is actually by far my biggest issue with the reboot. From when Finn and Poe escape the Finalizer, through the attack on Maz's cantina, much of the set and characters looks like "generic modern sci fi film X" rather than Star Wars. Yes, there's the Falcon and Chewie and Han, but other than the throwbacks, anything new just doesn't have the right look or feel to me. Just about every scene directly lifts a motif from the OT and its painfully obviously done as a rehash of ANH. While the PT movies each shared a theme with their "mate" in sequence in the OT, there was enough differentiation it didn't feel like you were re-watching the same film. Heck, they actually had to have the characters explain ON SCREEN that "no its not another Death Star...its BIGGER!". If you have to explain that on screen you should probably consider re-writing your script. (not to mention that Han and Leia's son falling to the dark side, and killing a family member while bringing back empire-esque government was already done in LOTF which was one of the things we rebooted specifically to get rid of)

    Sadly, TLJ seems to be continuing this with the Speeder vs. Walker battle, Jedi training on an isolated planet, major hero being in medical care (Luke in Bacta vs FInn in....pod thing?),
    Show Spoiler
    and the reveal of a massive super star destroyer
    . With JJ coming back for Episode IX, I have little faith that that will be any different.


    In short, the supporting material from the reboot has been as good or arguably better than much of the classic EU. But the cornerstone of the reboot, the sequel trilogy, is by far the weakest part and quite disappointing.
  9. Point_Of_View Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2017
    star 2
    The sequel trilogy is the definition of soulless, and it is consistently astounding to me that some people seem blind to it.
    Just compare Ahsoka to Rey. One is a character, the other is a product.
    There is nothing to her at all. Empty.
    Like the whole movie.
    Last edited by Point_Of_View, Sep 19, 2017
  10. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    This neglects the fact that one character was developed over six seasons of a TV series, whereas one had (as of now) had only 2 hrs worth of characterisation.
    Perhaps a case of "only time will tell?"


    Regarding the new canon being "juvenile" - this is target audience. When the EU kicked off proper in the 90s, the main fans were adults who had seen the original trilogy as children, teenagers or young adults. Gotta go where the money is... (darn you, corporate driven franchise...)
    MrDarth0 and kalzeth like this.
  11. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    It's still a very young EU that can't expand into many eras due to the new ST. After that ends, I imagine we'll get significantly more stories of different types. I don't begrudge Marvel or LFL for taking things a bit slower this time.
    J_K_DART likes this.
  12. Point_Of_View Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2017
    star 2
    I'm not neglecting anything, Mr. Iger. Even if all one has seen of Ahsoka is the episode "Lightsaber Lost" my comparison would still apply.
    Last edited by Point_Of_View, Sep 19, 2017
  13. Outsourced Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2017
    star 4
    @Point_Of_View

    You consistently fall short in providing actual coherent and structured thoughts on why you like or dislike things. If you actually made an argument outside of an unsupported opinion, you'd be more welcomed in debates.
    SpecForce Trooper likes this.
  14. Point_Of_View Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2017
    star 2
    I really don't think I do. I think my posts along with my cited content paint a clear picture for those that don't have their eyes squeezed shut.
    kalzeth likes this.
  15. Outsourced Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2017
    star 4
    Yeah, and acting like you're superior to other people just because you dislike a movie that other people do isn't helping your case.
  16. Point_Of_View Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2017
    star 2
    That implies that all opinions are equal.
  17. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
    So you're confident your opinion is superior?
  18. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Have to agree about TFA being the weakest part of the canon thus far @Darth_Henning.
    The rest of the canon story seems to be propping up something interesting, like the Children of the Force, the secret Academy from Rebels/SOTE, the Jedi Academies, the whole Jakku thing in the Aftermath trilogy, the hidden threat in the Unknown Regions, the Jedi Temples, etc. and we get TFA. It's a letdown. Hopefully TLJ and E9 make things interesting.
    AusStig likes this.
  19. Dannik Jerriko Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2017
    star 1
    I have enjoyed the new canon novels to varying degrees. Lost Stars and Bloodline were stand outs. For me, Claudia Gray has been the absolute star of the show. I haven't had the chance to really dive into the comics yet, but I have enjoyed the few that I have read.

    Whilst I enjoyed Tarkin and Thrawn (I haven't started Phasma yet), I worry that we are going to get a lot of these "origin stories". I suspect that publishers regard these novels a safe bet for a couple of reasons. Firstly, they focus on characters that are popular with fans. Secondly, these stories tend not to encroach on the areas in the timeline that have been cordoned off.

    For me, the new canon is still in it's infancy. The old EU had years of interwoven stories, put together by some hugely talented authors. The old EU was massive and offered the reader the chance to explore different eras in a vast timeline. As time goes on, restrictions on the new canon timeline should begin to open up. I hope that, as the new canon continues to grow, we will enjoy a vast and consistent star wars universe.
  20. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    Origin stories are inherently derivative - I don't mean that to be necessarily a criticism. But it is what will turn off some.

    Remember that the older EU was the true example of a 'spin off' to the franchise (at least in its original post-ROTJ form). At the moment, the marketing approach is to supplement the sequel trilogy - i.e. merely 'extend' the plot of the film with background detail.

    Now, if I were being cynical, I'd call this a marketing gimmick to build hype. But I'd really much rather call it some very interesting stories about some potentially great storylines. ;)

    I agree that TCW series had good characterisation. But I cannot follow your argument.
    "Lightsaber Lost" was building on a chracter that had already existed for a season and a half. You are proving my earlier point that people are inherently selective (and TCW isn't even old canon...)

    And let us not forget the exciting (...or not...) original Star Wars: The Clone Wars - since that's the fairest like to like comparison, if that's the sort of debate you're after.
    Last edited by Pacified_llama, Sep 19, 2017
    Dannik Jerriko likes this.
  21. Dannik Jerriko Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2017
    star 1
    You have a valid point regarding the nature of the old EU. I also agree that the primary function of the new novels is to supplement the movies (and the TV shows). I actually enjoy novels that fill in the blanks and put flesh on the bones of characters from the silver screen. So, I'm going to follow your example and remain positive about the potential storylines.
  22. Point_Of_View Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2017
    star 2
    ????
    I am saying that that episode in a vacuum has a,better character than Rey by many orders of magnitude.
    kalzeth likes this.
  23. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    @Point_Of_View

    Why do you think this?

    I'd be willing to discuss further but I don't really understand what particular points you disliked about Rey. Let's hear why Rey is so bad and then I can comment.
  24. Point_Of_View Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2017
    star 2
    What do you mean?
    Rey has no discernable qualities.
    "Plucky scavenger who is stronger than RotJ Luke ".

    Not to mention Ridley being a bad actress. Compare her to Felicity Jones.
  25. comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2017
    star 3
    Unlike ANH, TFA isn't standalone, adn we can't really judge the new canon until the story is done.

    That said, we don't get Empress Jaina so plus one in my book.
    Gamiel likes this.