PT Do you like the way Anakin fell to the DS?

(As portrayed in ROTS)
Yes?
No?
Why?

Discuss

 

Yes. I found it quite disturbing. Psychologically it was very creepy the way Vader moved almost like a Reaper or Angel of Death. I like the way he knows he will lose himself when he's at the Temple staring at the skyline during twilight. It's almost like there's no turning back now. I also like it on Mustafar too. There is alot of conflict and throughout his tenure as Vader before being fried, I'm curious to know how he's convincing himself that his actions are justified. Even physically I was creeped out. He looks very ghostly in his appearance. I like how he was able to masquerade by looking like "Anakin" when he was with Padme but turned into a very freaky corrupted version of Anakin when slaughtering people. From the pale skin, yellow eyes, etc. There seemed to be physical corruption to him. Just my thoughts.

 

Yes.

I like how he turned over desperation instead of for "power" like lots of heroes do when they fall.

 

Definitely. Made him seem more like a villain trying to do good which are usually the best types.

 

Yes in theory... not really, in practice. The idea that he was a basically good man whose flaws let Sidious manipulate him into evil is much more satisfying than 'that kid from The Omen... IN SPACE.' But for whatever reason despite being told what a straight up guy Anakin was, in the films he came across as a possessive, arrogant douchebag with an inferiority complex. For all it's strengths and weaknesses, the CGI Clone Wars series did a much better job of seeding that he really was a decent and moral man but his anger and pride were always a threat, but of course had far more time to explore the ideas than a film would.

 

Absolutely, His performance is the main reason RotS is in my top 10 films of all time.

 

Whew! Same *High Five*

 

That's true. Also, in AOTC he is only 20. He hasn't had much experience to prove himself completely. Hell, by ROTS, he imo, comes off as alot more experienced but this is the film were we are going to have to see him fall and I don't expect Vader to be very heroic.

 

I don't know if I could say if I like it very much since I'm not even sure if "liking" is the appropriate word to describe my thoughts towards his downfall.

Even if I like very much ROTS, I would rather say that I still find Anakin's downfall very interesting since there's a lot to discuss about the ideas and the reasons behind his downfall. Even if 10 years has passed since the prequels were released, we are still discussing Anakin's downfall, even if there are people who like or do not like the prequels, proof that this subject still attracts a lot of fans' attention.

Whether people think that his downfall was believable or not, if there's one thing that Lucas has succeded, it is to push people to discuss about it and the subjects related to his downfall such as greed, philosophy, love, ambition, anger, fear, etc.. subjects that we can also be challenged to in our real life. I've said it before in another thread, but when I was I teenager when ROTS came out, I was in that time period during which I had to decide what I will do in my future. Watching Anakin's fall and how brutal it was, has made me understand that every decision that I take now, early in my life, can have an impact on my future. I think that younger people, and even older ones can relate to it, whether you believe it should have been better illustrated or not...

 

Best post in the thread yet.

 

Yes. Those who say it was too rushed must have failed to pay attention to both Episode II and III. He slaughters the Tuskens (II) and shows great concern about the Jedi's leadership and an interest in Darth Plagueis' powers (III). All of this happens before he cuts off Mace's arm.

Add the fact that he's been having nightmares about losing Padmé and believes the powers of the Dark Side can save her and it's anything but not convincing. One of the reasons I love the Ruminations scene.

Also, I think a simple yes or no poll could be added to the thread.

 

Certainly I like it. The overall arc was far more composed of day to day nuances of human frailty than I expected pre-TPM. It's a credit to Lucas that he could craft such moments of "authentic" emotion out of the bombastic circumstances that outwardly define this brand of adventure SF.

 

I like the idea of WHY he turned to the dark side, but unfortunately I'm one of those people who think it was too rushed.

Although he slaughtered the Tuskens in Episode 2 which shows his dark side, that occurred quite a bit before episode 3, and since then he had had more training and was no longer a Padawan. So in essence even if Lucas was trying to show his gradual transfer to the dark side, it only really happens in episode 3.

Killing the younglings in episode 3 was certainly out of the blue, I was so shocked. Especially due to him expecting a child himself? Idk just seemed so weird.

 

No
I did not like it when i saw it in the cinema and i still dont like it today. For my taste it was too rushed and i never felt like he is a character i care about. Lucas should have given us more moments in which we see how he is a bff with obi wan and what a great and likeable character he is. Then give us good love scenes with Padme and dont try to rip off Romeo and Juliet. In between this some hints to the inner struggle in him and more discussions between Anikan and Obi-Wan. Because they are best friends and i just want Obi-Wan to notice Anakins struggle more and try to help him.

 

Anakin has too many flaws to be likable the way Luke was. I don't think Lucas was trying to make him likable. He was more similar to classic tragic heroes (Achilles, Jason) that have some serious flaws that lead to their downfall.

 

I liked it. It wasn't as emotionally or intellectually satisfying as I hoped it would be, but

1. It worked.
2. It was real.
3. It was actually handled way better than Luke's "near turn" in ROTJ.

And Hayden's best acting is pretty much the 2nd half after his turn to the dark side.

 

I do like it, had a few reservations initially. First viewing in the theaters I did feel like it was "rushed" as others have said, but after numerous viewings since then I've grown to appreciate it differently and can say yes, I really like how Anakin's fall into darkness was portrayed. Hayden, IMO, did a great job of showing how tortured he was when he made up his mind that this was what he was going to do and then finally giving in... I agree with rpeugh that he was great in the final stretch of the film.

 

Let me buck the trend - No.

I'm sorry, but turning on everything you believe on the words and hollow potential promises of someone who you've been taught to believe is a liar? Just never fit for me. Plus, the turn was too severe and too sudden. He went from tattle tale to a Jedi Master about a Sith to murdering children within minutes.

I always felt that it would have been more a more powerful and realistic transition if his motivations were more related to disagreement with the Jedi Council in the war. For instance, perhaps Anakin couldn't reconcile the apathy of the Jedi Council had for the clones or the loss of innocents. The Council viewed these as collateral loss and were not attached to them - whereas Anakin could not see it that way. Ultimately, the Jedi Council is forced to make a choice that leads to Padme's death (and what he thinks is the loss of his children) which is what puts Anakin over the edge.

In that scenario, it paints Anakin as truly good, but now angry. Frustrated. I could see myself turning on my beliefs. I'd be lost. Spinning.

But, as it stands in the movies - there was nothing the Jedi did to inspire his ire other than not making him a master.

 

I'm very meh about it... Ian's manipulation was awesome, but parts of it weren't very believable.

Interesting non SW fan anecdote. A couple of my buddies after seeing ROTS literally said "ARE YOU F-ing KIDDING ME? ANAKIN BECAME DARTH VADER BECAUSE HE HAD BAD DREAMS?". I've actually heard that from many other causal viewers FWIW

 

It's a mixed bag when it shouldn't have been.

I wanted to see Anakin's story resemble the demise of Michael Corleone. The Godfather Part II transforms a hero into a villain. Power, greed, a lust for control, a willingness to destroy loved ones in order to secure personal gain....these are the elements that should have motivated Anakin Skywalker's turn to the Dark Side.

Yeah, people will claim all those elements were present, but his primary concern was to save someone he loved. He was just too selfless and not too unintelligent to know better. Meh. He should have made a Faustian bargain --not in the heat of the moment but as a gradual process --and we should have gradually learned about the allure of the Dark Side.

It was okay. It could have been spectacular.

 

No, I didn't. I always interpreted Obi-Wan's tale of Anakin's fall in the OT, as the fall of a great man. Anakin was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a good friend, a kind of mix between Rey and Poe Dameron, charismatic, and resourceful. The Anakin we got wasn't great, he wasn't even good. His claim to greatness came from a hollow prophesy about being the chosen one, rather than from his actions, which were questionable, from the moment he could swing a lightsaber. Palpatine's seduction was brilliantly portrayed, but Anakin was presented as angry, petulant, and extremely gullible: a powerful fool. I simply couldn't imagine this simpleton being behind Vader's mask.

 

I liked it, to whoever believes that it wasn't good, thats fine. But I'd just like to re post what another user by the name Darth Cyn had mentioned in another thread that what I thought was a pretty spot on overall fair reason as to why Anakin eventually surcumed to the dark side in the end.

''So, thinking about the film, I just realized, the main reason that Ben, despite trying to emulate Vader, is his exact opposite. Basically, Ben and Anakin had extreme different backgrounds. As much as people like to make fun of Anakin and call him whiny, he did, in fact, have a very rough life. He spent most of his young childhood in slavery, only to be rescued but separated from his mother, his constant provider and the only caregiver he ever had. Then he spent the next couple years of life living a monastic lifestyle, being forced to suppress his emotions when it was not in his nature, and being somewhat isolated from his fellow padawan because of his emotions and raw talent. Fast forward to years later, and, over the course of about a week, he loses his mother, nearly loses the woman he loved, nearly loses his mentor, sees his friends die in the Geonosian arena, and really does lose his right hand. From there he gets to spend the next three years fighting in the Clone Wars, seeing comrades die left and right, watching monsters like Dooku, Maul, and Grievous go on the warpath, and have his padawan, Ashoka, get betrayed and abandoned by the Jedi Order, causing her to walk away. And that's not even mentioning the self-inflicted hell he created in Revenge of the Sith. Basically, Darth Vader had an extremely crappy life.'' - Darth Cyn.

 

Totally.

Best thing ever in Star Wars and I really doubt it will ever come close to being approached in any way shape or form as brilliantly.

It's hard to express how awesome I think it is.

It's not just about ROTS of course. It's the entire saga from TPM through to ROTJ.

The character arc of Anakin over 6 movies is one of the great achievements in cinema history and the fact that it annoyed so many people because it "ruined" their own story because it didn't match the real story really adds to the entirety of it.

When you upset as many people as Lucas did then you know you did something right.

Excellent. The thing is that Lucas was far beyond Star Wars simply being a fun and light adventure series of movie. Now he was really telling epic mythic stories that go to the core of human existence with Anakin.

That of course doesn't make always for the most fun SF easy ride and easy answers.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see why Anakin isn't considered heroic when his actions are pretty comparable to Luke.

In ANH, Luke rescues Leia and destroys the Death Star. In TPM, Anakin risks his life to help the Queen and Jedi off Tatooine and then destroys the droid control ship.
In TESB, Luke helps the rebels escape Hoth and tries to save his friends (some might argue that Luke abandoning his training isn't very heroic, but I think risking his life to protect his friends is, even if he failed). In AOTC, Anakin saves Obi-Wan and Padmé, catches an assassin, risks his life to save Obi-Wan, and fights in the battle of Geonosis and tries to stop Count Dooku from escaping (like Luke confronting Vader, though, he makes some mistakes there).
In ROTJ, then Luke rescues Han and then saves his father. In ROTS, Anakin rescues Palpatine and saves Obi-Wan in the opening.

Anakin does terrible things as well, no question, but he does acts that are equally as heroic as Luke's.

Also, in regards to Anakin being too much of a "fool," I actually think that the only time Darth Vader doesn't come across as subservient is in TESB. In ANH, he's a powerful, competent henchman and then by ROTJ...well...Palpatine acts annoyed with him a lot, like he thinks Anakin is an idiot child, almost. Such as when Palpatine says "I told you to stay on the command ship." And he tersely he replies "Yes, I know" when Anakin tells him that Luke is with the Rebels. Or the whole conversation of "He will come to me?" and the Palpatine reiterates that Anakin will need to bring Luke before him. Palpatine seems frustrated with him and doesn't seem to take him seriously at all which, I think, fits very well with the way their relationship is portrayed throughout the PT.