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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Do You think G.L. has dug himself into a very big hole?

Discussion in 'Archive: Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by yodaschum, Aug 30, 2002.

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  1. Ekenobi

    Ekenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2002
    splice,

    I stand corrected. Those things that you brought up that I did not mention you might see in EPIII where the ones I did mention will definitely not see in EPIII. I think it was EU with the slave issue.
     
  2. DIRK_DIGGLER

    DIRK_DIGGLER Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2002
    All I can say is SW is georges creation. There is no way the man can live up to every single SW fan out there when it comes to the PT. He is going to make them the way he wants to. I personally liked TPM better than ROTJ. I think EPIII is going to be the best one yet. I am very anxoius to see some more darth vader on the screen.
     
  3. Mech-E_Jedi

    Mech-E_Jedi Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    So now we have a list to pick apart, showing "all" the things that need to happen before ANH.

    That's super.

    But again, don't assume that GL must spend a lot of film time on these things. If you write down the details of the scene - sure, it appears long on paper. But 30 seconds of good film will convey a whole lot of information. Think of the last few minutes of AOTC.

    And why is it so important we see where Han and Chewie came from? - or - why is it sooooo bloody important to some that they witness Padme's death?

    I don't care if I see the factory that built R2-D2 - nor do I care to see each piece come together to see R2-D2 formed. He existed before TPM and that's all you need to know. That mentality applies to so many of your points on the list(s).

    GL understands these concepts. If you don't, you will be disappointed with EPIII.
     
  4. Philip023

    Philip023 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2002
    Well, first, I think that what splice's comments were directed at were some of the core plot lines or developments that tpm and aotc started and should climax or be finished in ep3. The list I gave, and I'll repost in abbreviated format are as follows:

    1. Fall of the Jedi - how, when and why? And who survives?
    2. Anakin Crossover - how, when, why?
    3. Clones to Stormtroopers - when are they unleashed on the jedi? on the Seperatists? on the Rebels? on the Republic itself? 4. Seperatists = Rebels? how and why?
    5. Dooku - what part does he finally play?
    6. birth of the twins - how are they hidden?
    7. Death of padme - how, when and why?
    8. Final battle - Ani/Obi: why do they duel?

    I think, and some of these are in splice's post, are things that should be addressed otherwise, why have an ep3?

    I mean, if tpm and aotc were the set up movies, then ep3 is the end all of end all SW movies. Everything we know from the first two should be tied together in ep3 so it can set up a smooth transition to ep4. That way we don't ask, "well, why did obi-wan say this or that in ep4 or why did Tarkin say this", you know what I mean.

    Also, the post by Malkuth_Toltec was right on. Yes, GL studied and I'm sure he still does. Film continually evolves and we are still seeing that in these two new movies. But, in short, he's rusty when it comes to writing and directing. Well, hopefully all the rust will come off for ep3 cuz after that, that's it.
     
  5. Mech-E_Jedi

    Mech-E_Jedi Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    OK - so I can see where/why you want to see these things. Here are my speculations:

    (my edit is to add some detail and clarify some points. Sorry this is so long.)

    1. Fall of the Jedi - how, when and why? And who survives?

    How:
    * Piecemeal, several will die in clone war battles (30 seconds of film - pure dialogue, mentioned in passing)
    * Then killed one by one, betrayed by Anakin and at the hand of Dooku (plus help - Boba, maybe) (one or two "highlight" scenes such as death of Windu, but otherwise about a minute of film time, dialogue, mentioned in passing).
    * Survivors: Yoda, Obi-wan

    2. Anakin Crossover - how, when, why?

    How: pregnant Padme gets captured, orchestrated by Palpy/Dooku. Anakin disobeys a direct order to "stay" from, say, Yoda. Gets to Padme, thinks she is dead, goes nuts and blames the Jedi for his delay.

    3. Clones to Stormtroopers - when are they unleashed on the jedi? on the Separatists? on the Rebels? on the Republic itself?

    Palpy unleashed Clones on Separatists already. The Jedi "convert" over to the Separatists cause and are then blamed for the whole clone-war thing. Palpy assumes all power/becomes Emperor and issues an extermination order on the Jedi.

    4. Separatists = Rebels? how and why?

    I don't think this needs to be shown. It's a foregone conclusion.

    5. Dooku - what part does he finally play?

    Pure pawn of Palpy. He'll die at the hands of Anakin. (See #2) Palpy will blame Padme's "death" on Dooku, and put Ani "in-debt" and reveal where Dooku/Padme is. Similar to Vader vs. Luke.

    6. birth of the twins - how are they hidden?

    30 seconds of film for birth. Obi-wan is there with Padme. Afterwards (maybe before)They discuss where to hide the kids. It's a "snap" decision, Obi-wan's gut feeling. (about 5 minutes of film time start to end)

    7. Death of padme - how, when and why?

    I highly doubt this will even be shown. At the end of EPIII - she will flee with Leia under the arm of Bail to Alderaan. Her death will be because of lingering wounds from birth. (30 seconds of film time)

    8. Final battle - Ani/Obi: why do they duel?

    Obi-wan tries to "save" Anakin. Anakin, already dark-side, only has hate for OB1 blaming him and Yoda for "death" of Padme (See #2) and "death" of mom. Take the dialogue from the confession scene and insert "Jedi" wherever Anakin said "Sand People".

    OB1 realizes there is "no" hope for Anakin (especially after Ani whips out his sabre and hacks at OB1). They fight, OB1 "wins" and leave Anakin for dead.

    Again - this is my speculation. Take it for what it's worth (a lot to me, and nothing to you.)
     
  6. Philip023

    Philip023 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2002
    Well, I guess I don't have to spend $9.50 on seeing ep3. I just got all the answers. lol

    Speculation or not, I think that's pretty much how the movie is gonna go.

     
  7. splice

    splice Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2002
    obi and anakin fight...obi leaves him for dead, clipping ani's lightsaber to his belt as he leaves.

    then we see the vader suit being put on, right?

     
  8. jc_stratus

    jc_stratus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2002
    from talking to friends (sw nerds and not) i must say the expectations of this film are really really high

    however i to expect it to be incredibly,


    it better be

    :(
     
  9. Mech-E_Jedi

    Mech-E_Jedi Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    From splice
    obi and anakin fight...obi leaves him for dead, clipping ani's lightsaber to his belt as he leaves.

    then we see the vader suit being put on, right?


    OK. I see where you're going with this. But here's my rebutal:

    Anakin is going to know Padme is pregnant. Long before she delivers. Also long before he gives into the dark-side. Once Obi-wan finds out (all of the could happen before the movie, BTW) he and Anakin make arrangments for the baby (notice the singular). This is where OB1 gets Ani's sabre - to give to Ani's child.

    Now, Ani goes after Dooku - kills him - takes his place - and becomes Darth Vader. He doesn't have to wear the mask to be titled "Darth".

    Then cut to fight scene - OB1's attempt to "save" Ani.
     
  10. DarthBane93

    DarthBane93 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Let me just say this. EpIII will be great. How great depends on pacing, editing, and chemistry.

    GL does have lots of ground to cover in EpIII. One of my bigger beefs with ROTJ is that it felt rushed. Not in the way it was filmed, but the way the story takes place. I think EpIII has even more things to cram in. GL WONT make a 3 hr movie. He just wont because he doesnt have the guts to do it. He cares about money. More showtimes = more money. Or he will just say...I could care less if the movie suffers, but I want it to be continous in length of a movie as the others. So prepare for a 2hr, 20min movie. Yes he will get everything done. How well its executed is what people should be worrying about. If its rushed, it will suck.
     
  11. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Has GL dug a hole? Or have some of the fans dug themselves one?

    Anyway EP3 will be what it will be. The final prequel and it will connect most of the dots.
    GL may hve a lot to do but I have faith he will finish his story right, he can't lose since he knows whats gonna happen and how its done.

    Some of the fans have dug themselves a hole, they expected too much and not even EP3 will save them from bein disappointed I'm afraid.
     
  12. splice

    splice Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2002
    I don't *need* to see the things I listed.

    I would really like this film to have more of a link to the original trilogy. it would be very cool to tie them together like that. the appearance of any of the main characters from the original movies would do it, I think. [droids not included] ...like, chewbacca, for example. [han would also work] actually, I just want them to explain the technology. the sudden decline in technological levels is the biggest problem I have.

    -splice
    [and han or chewbacca...that's really all I want ;) ]


     
  13. The Flying Dutchman

    The Flying Dutchman Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2000
    interesting subject question.

    It is however very unlikely EP3 will contain all plots we think it will.


    A couple of things 'must' happen:

    - Anakin's turns to the dark side: Maybe the turning into Darth Vader. However the link between the 2 will not be made. After all that plotpoint is being made in TesB.

    The fact that Obi-wan said that his [Luke] father was killed by DV makes no difference. Obi-wan never tells luke that his father doesn't turn to the dark side. He just notes that his father is killed by DV :)

    - birth of twins and seperation: Luke will be given to anakins brother (by maybe anakin himselve since he knows as DV that Luke is his sun).

    However Leia's existence is a secret and very likely Leia's name is not even mentioned in Ep3. It needs to be a suprise afterall that Luke and Leia are bother and sister...

    Could be that Yoda and Obi-wan take Padme with them to escape from Anakin, because Leia has 'some' memory of her mother and Luke has none.

    - dead of most jedi and Dooku: rather obvious :)

    - Rise of the Empire: Maybe in a simular way as in AotC. The Republic doesn't realy need to fall. That happens with the abandoning <sp?> of the senate in AHN

    so if you think these 4 points doesn't fit into 1 movie, I don't know what will...

    btw: GL just abour finished Ep3 writting while begining/ continuing filming AotC. So he could have changed Ep2 if he needed to!!!!!!
     
  14. The Flying Dutchman

    The Flying Dutchman Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2000
    ohh and about know the entire story already: to some point yes - but GL has a couple of suprises up for us - 1 for sure!
     
  15. DarthStothe

    DarthStothe Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2002
    Hole, what hole? George is on a mountain! Thhe PT is a whole different trilogy just preluding the OT. I believe George didn't screw up anything. All is going as planned and Episode III will be a great (and dark) epiosode. Of course the OT was original, but my list goes:

    1. ESB and AotC
    2. All other SW movies.

    (I have a bunch of ties, I just can't decide)

    Sure the PT doesn't have the Han Solo or the Chewbacca, but it does have the Jedi in their prime, before the Dark Ages, and it also has Yoda, the Supreme Warrior. Along with others we know and love, the PT is a trilogy all its own. They are seperate and should each hold a place in our hearts. If you hate the PT, all I can say is: don't watch it. Plus, I don't see why everyone hates Jar Jar. He didn't ruin the PT, he's an important part of it and I rather find his antics funny. All I can say is:




    EPISODE III is gonna rock!
     
  16. Malkuth_Toltec

    Malkuth_Toltec Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 22, 2002
    Darth Terrious:
    Has GL dug a hole? Or have some of the fans dug themselves one?

    This is a great quote. I know for a fact that I have. I have dug myself into a huge hole. To me, redemption stories are incredibly powerful and because this particular story of fall and redemption has so effected me, particuarly in my younger years, any expectations I have cannot possibly be lived up to.

    When I suddenly had the feeling I was watching some cartoon during the arena battle on Geonosis in AotC I should have thought, "Ah well, Episode III will be good but we can all see that AotC suffers from the same indulgence as TPM so I am sure Episode III will follow suit and end up a damp squib after a promising beginning."

    But no, my optimistic outlook wins through again and I think, "It's all as set up for the next one." However cynical I may write about the last Star Wars movie, I still can't help but hold out for a life changing experience, like the first time I watched ESB at Christmas and decided I wanted to be an actor (A process itself that has evolved into me studying filmmaking at university) so I could be part of movies like this. Deep down I know it won't be, but I can't help my expectations.

    No movie, however good, can live up to them. We are all victims of our own expectations. It's why I like movies like Deep Blue Sea... You expect to see a piece of **** and are pleasently surprised to see a very tense thriller, however ridiculous. (This is just a case study for me, I am sure there are many who hate DBS, but you see my point)

    People unfamiliar with Star Wars are having it built up by not only the fans, but the media as well. The amount of coverage on TPM will have set people's sights a hell of a lot higher than they would have been with just trailers. Every major newspaper in the UK had 16 page supplements on the movie and half had them for AotC despite a far smaller fanfare from the Lucasfilm hype machine. This will have undoubtedly hit AotC box office as people were "let down by the first one, why should the "sequel" be any different?"

    Just as we are victims of our own expectations, Star Wars is also a victim of its own myth.
     
  17. Philip023

    Philip023 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2002
    Good post. I think it reflects my point with my discussions with a few other posters that while commercially successful, EP1 and 2 were critical disappointments.

    I think I read one review that said, GL has succeeded in creating a movie FOR a 5-year old rather than creating a movie for the 5-year old in ALL of us.

    I think that was the magic of the old trilogy. Whether old or young, SW possessed a magic of a great story told in a new fashion.

    I think that as we have become accustomed to special effects - GL being the great pioneer of them - the magic of them tends to fade somewhat. That brings focus on the story and writing of the movie.

    Some of the biggest complaints of EP1 and 2 stemmed from poor acting: Natalie Portman "mailing it in"; Jake Lloyd's inability TO act; wasted performances from Neeson, Stamp and MacGregor. Others cite the poor editing of the movie; infantile jokes; a weak screenplay and above all, the poor direction of the movie.

    On the other hand, one cannot discount the visual beauty of the movies or the storyline itself. Both products of Lucas.

    But the near perfection of the old trilogy, specifically ep5 (and I say again, many regard this as the greatest sequel of any movie ever produced), leaves many wondering what the new trilogy is missing. Perhaps its expectation, perhaps our age (I was 7 when ep4 came out), perhaps something else. All I know is that young and old loved the old trilogy and identified with it. Now, the new movies are somewhat maligned. Entertaining, yes. Thoughtful, no.

    GL, on the strength of what he created and his lack of directorial and editorial practice, may doom ep3 to just another sequel not equaling the original.

    How bad would that be?
     
  18. SabeForQueen

    SabeForQueen Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2002
    In answer to the big question, I'm sorry I can't contribute anything better than a wishy-washy "yes and no". Because frankly I was surprised at how many story elements from TPM were left undeveloped in AOTC and by how many new issues were introduced. -- For example, I was expecting a little bit more about Anakin being the Chosen One and I WASN'T expecting the very intriguing new issue of his -forbidden- marraige (call me blind or worse; I'm only myopic). :)
    As the screen went black...actually, even before that, when things are tangibly coming to a close with the Star Destroyers Leaving Coruscant shot, I began to slightly panic, thinking: don't end now! There's so much more to show! (Admittedly, half of my confusion was caused by the disapperance of scenes/images/costumes advertised in trailers. Such as Padme in the mystery blue dress, Obi-Wan's "You haven't learned anything", and more Bail Organa)
    And when we watched Ani & Padme take their vows, I began to pleasurably but a little sadly anticipate Ep. III. To me, that last shot was definitely the sealing of Anakin's doom. He has left the Jedi code too far behind him now.
    Okay. You're probably wondering what all this has to do with the main question. Only that so far I think the core points to show in Ep.3 are:
    how the Jedi find out about Ani's marraige
    how they react
    how Padme and him are physically and emotionally seperated
    how Dooku dies/ends up
    how Obi-Wan confronts Ani (is he confronting him as "a Sith apprentice called Darth Vader" he's hunting, or as his own apprentice in a vital moment of mutiny?)
    how Sidious/Palpatine responds to Padme's pregnancy
    how Alderaan's Bail Organa comes into the picture
    and lastly, how the new Empire looks now!
    Atleast, these are the points I would very much LIKE the movie to address. I don't care too much about technical consistencies and the political maneuverings. I would prefer to be swept away by the charater-driven plot, the way I kind of was with AOTC, and definitely was with ESB.
    One of my more curious musings is on whether or not Anakin will be thrown out of the Jedi order when his marraige is discovered. And if so, is this before he has a chance to take the trials? And could this be what makes him turn to Palpatine/Sidious? Who might pretend to help by sending the increasingly pregnant Padme somewhere out of the picture while he works on Ani's rage? Another interesting point: Padme trusts Obi-Wan. Might he enlist her support when he learns of Anakin's turning?
    Basically, I simply hope that the more important galactic events are almost all directly linked to Anakin's marraige because that is the premonitary feeling I am inspired to when I see AOTC's end and when I hear Across The Stars blazing through the theater. Also, it seems to me it would give a better payoff for the controversial love element thrown in the movie.



    P.S. Agree that dialogue needs serious work. Liked patches, hated patches... can the style get smoothened out somehow? John Hales, in my (uninformed) opinion, made matters worse. I think what excellent lines there were in AOTC probably came straight from George's mouth anyway. He just needs actors who are willing to improvise (like Ford) and actors who can make technical stuff sound important (Fisher). ;)
    On the other hand, if only there COULD be another Lawrence Kasdan. (ok, am not sure. was he ep5's director or screen writer? how my ignorance shows!)

    Oh, well. "May the Force be with you. Always."
    BTW- that might be a cool thing for Anakin to say to Padme when they Part. (I love all of those little echoes GL puts in the PT.)
     
  19. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Malkuth_Toltec: Thanks, I didnt know my question would have been taken notice of.


    But nonetheless its an important question, some of us more than others have to ask ourselves. I'm glad to report I wont have to ask myself that question. For me the prequels are my firsthand experience of the SW myth. I never really saw the OT, I know went in 97 to the SE's but i never really SAW them, never really paid attention. So for me you might say the OT was a bore. But of course that is not to be true because you'll find be more often then not putting in ANH, or ESB or ROTJ in my VCR.
    For me TPM and AOTC are my Star Wars. I love the special effects, i love the characters and i love the story. If I hadn't gone to my local cinema that fateful day I saw TPM I would not be here discussing what I now believe to be the greatest film saga ever created. I would not have 4000+ posts.
    Star Wars hasn't changed I don't think, the story is still told visually and its still exciting. Yes we have these special effects but whatever happened to immersing yourself in those effects. Letting go of your conscious self (Obi-Wan anyone?).
    All this reliance that some of the fans, like Philip here, on critical success is so dumbfounded and ludicrous. Star Wars has never been a critic's favourite. Why should it start now? Why is it so important that Star Wars gain over critics? I don't believe thats important. The general public is who Star Wars should win over and Star Wars is winning over the General public. How else do you get 300m+?
    Anyway some fans have gotten to be disappointed, it was always going to happen. GL could not have pleased everyone, neither was that the point. He wanted to finish his great space fantasy and end Star Wars where he started it.....Episode 4 ;)
    We've been given this great chance to see how Darth Vader came to be, why the Empire came about and what was the down turn of a wise and great Order. George is giving us that, his story of how it went about. But during the time he left between the end of the second part of the saga and the beginning of the first part, no doubt some if not many fans began to think about the past and what happened to Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi et al. Ideas, not just their own but from the Star Wars books that were produced and when it was announced that the prequels were going to be made, their ideas became expectations which would never be met. That is unless you just wanted a fun Star Wars story.
    George didnt dig a hole. With the exclusion of the fans who were gained from TPM and AOTC, everyone dug their own hole of sorts. But instead of blaming their own expectations, they blame George. But how could he have known you'd have these expectations? He was writing the story he wanted to tell its too bad some of us didnt like it. If you realise your limitations with your expectations and just see the new Star Wars films for what they are, Star Wars, then you will forget all the expectations you had and enjoy it again.
    As I've said before especially in the AOTC forum. Star Wars, save the new special effects, has not changed it is still a grand story which entertains but it is the fans, the world that has changed. Things have moved on, Star Wars has now this great status which even GL could never destroy, and it will grow in stature in 10 even 20 years time. And I thought it was just us Brits that have a resistance to the new and change but I see that is false. We've embraced the prequels whereas our American counterparts have torn apart something that is so much of their culture. Its sad how things have changed and yet we still do what we've always done blame the external rather than the internal.
     
  20. Philip023

    Philip023 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2002
    "All this reliance that some of the fans, like Philip here, on critical success is so dumbfounded and ludicrous. Star Wars has never been a critic's favourite. Why should it start now? Why is it so important that Star Wars gain over critics? I don't believe thats important. The general public is who Star Wars should win over and Star Wars is winning over the General public. How else do you get 300m+?"

    Hmm, well, a couple things. Yes you are correct that SW was never a critics favorite. I think the two biggest critical complaints most seen are the writing and the dialogue used in the old and new trilogies. I also never said that it was important for SW to gain critical praise or suck up to critics by making SW more "serious" or "dramatic". What was mentioned in this forum was a comparison made by EKenobi that the PT was just as popular as the OT. He based his claim on a website called rottentomatoes.com. The approval rating of both old and new trilogies demonstrated general public opinion that the PT was just as good as the old, if not better. That was an opinion, just like the one I'm about to give, so let's review.

    First off, is the commercial success of a movie the measure of the general public's acceptance or embrace of it? hardly. In fact, if we accepted that as fact, we would see that between TPM and AOTC, AOTC was wiped out by TPM at the box office but AOTC is considered an improvement over TPM. Are there other factors at work?

    Similarly, if we look at the reviews, and I've looked at most, I don't think you will find one review of TPM that is entirely flattering of the movie. High marks for visual effects and the beauty of the movie but poor marks for direction, writing and dialogue. HOWEVER, if we look at the old trilogy reviews, we see something quite different. High marks are given for writing and dialogue. Of course, I am talking about EP5 - the one only two movies that GL handed screenplay and direction duties to someone else. The result: a better movie.

    Check out rotten tomatoes since this seems to be the standard upon which movies in this forum are to be judged. You'll see that the OT had an approval rating of over 80% collectively but the first two of the PT had an approval rating of only 67% Hardly a glowing validation of your opinion. But then, as you say, $300 million must count for something. Shouldn't it?

     
  21. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    you're forgetting that those reviews that rottentomatoes.com has are from the SE's not when the film was originally released.

    And how else do you know whether a film has been well received other than the box office figure?

    Who cares about critical success thats all you keep going on about.
     
  22. Philip023

    Philip023 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2002
    What difference does whether its the SE's or not? Did the addition of special effects have anything to do with their positive or negative reviews? I didn't read anything in the reviews that lent any insight into whether they liked it more cuz they were the SE's or not. Don't know where you got that assertion.

    Critical success? Well, its arbitrary. I don't pay attention to critics but I think the reviews that many of them gave to TPm and AOTC are alot along the lines of why many SW fans and just plain movie-goers liked the original trilogy more than the new one.

    As far as commercial success showing the success of a movie. Well I guess a movie can be a monster hit but still be a critical failure - ala TPM (with the exception of the rave reviews given to the visual aspects of the film). If you look at films like, I dunno, Jurassic Park, Spiderman, Lord of the Rings - all of these were monster hits AND critic favorites.

    I only alude to the fact that rotten tomatoes only rates the new series with no approval rating greater tan 68% while it gives the old series approval ratings of 97, 99 and 78%. Proof is in the pudding.
     
  23. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Oh do shut up.

    You do care about the critics otherwise you wouldnt be mentioning them zll the time.

    It does matter if they are SE's reviews or not because the SE's were going to get great reviews, they had 20 years of reflection to say "yeah we love them now".

    Commercial succes proves a films popular NOT critical success.
     
  24. Philip023

    Philip023 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2002
    Shut up? Nice retort.

    It would be a nice little research project to see how many of those reviews came from the seeing the new editions of those films.

    But still your argument needs work. Since when do critics change their mind to suit the times? I suggest a look at Citizen Kane. A critical success but a box office bomb. It is recognized as the greatest movie of all time.

    Further, by your rationale, if we look strictly at box office then Titanic should be everybody's favorite movie right? It was both a critical and box office success.

    I'm only mentioning critics cuz someone else mentioned them as a measure of a films popularity. I think it was EKenobi.

    But I guess the box office "success" of AOTC may prove me wrong. It came no where close to TPM and yet I consider it a better movie. Proof of the matter is, is that it didn't do as good or better because it stuck to the TPM formula. Lots of razzle dazzle but no meat. Word of mouth goes round, people stay away. It will be interesting to see how EP3 does.

    And yes, $300 million is pretty spectacular but then again, it wasn't even the box office champ this past summer and was beaten by over 100 million by Spidey? Go figure.
     
  25. TI-011

    TI-011 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 29, 2002
    There are a few issues I want to address here:

    1) the opening crawl of Ep.III could concievably take care of many of the unresolved issues, and probably will. It is an interesting device which has worked well so far.

    2) The concept of the prophecy - Ani/Vader is indeed the one who does bring balance to the force. I think fans are misinterpreting "balance" as "justice", this may not be the case. Does having only 2 Sith and Hundreds of Jedi in the galaxy sound like balnce? To further this point - before Luke takes on his training we know (or later find) that there are 2 remaining Jedi -Obi and Yoda. in numbers alone this balances the Emperor and Vader to equality. Therefore the prophecy comes true - The Jedi may have always been aware of their inevitable doom


    3) A question of continuity. If this series is meant to be viewed in order, certain points must be kept from us in Ep.III such as: How [or] will the identity of Vader be reasonably hidden as to maintain the drama of Ep.V? Same for the parentage of Luke/Leia. Their relation will have to remain a mystery if the future audience is expected to wonder who is the other Skywalker.

    4) It is anounced in the Death Star in Ep.IV that the emperor has just abolished the senate - therefore the senate is still functioning in some capacity at the end of Ep.III. What may need to be covered is the "Birth of the Rebellion" (a good posibility for the title?!¿

    I have a feeling that those wanting to see in full detail what they know will occur are missing the point of telling the "bigger picture"...

    ...but I could be wrong.
     
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