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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Do you think Palpatine protected Anakin?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Erkan12, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013


    According to Dave Filoni, he didn't. But as far as I remember, Lucas actually implied a kind of protection or maybe I am remembering wrong.

    But when you think about it, that's not the Sith way at all, there is no protection or mercy. Think about Maul's training, how could he be ready if he didn't get that necessary training. I think that makes sense since the Sith couldn't be powerful if they would protect with each other all the time. The strongest should rule.

    But then againt Palpatine went to save Anakin on Mustafar. But I think he learned that he made a mistake with Maul, since he wasn't expecting Maul's survival, he believed Vader could also survive.

    But if it was a duel between two darksiders (such as Dooku and Vader), then he wouldn't save Vader. He only did that because Vader was fighting with Obi-Wan, a Jedi Knight.
     
  2. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 10, 2017
    ...protected from what?
     
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  3. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2013
    Uhm... From Dying?

    I thought it was clear. :)
     
  4. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 10, 2017
    ...when?
     
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  5. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

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    Jan 5, 2011
    "Palpatine protected Anakin from dying" is a weird way to put it, but yes he saved him from dying. If he hadn't gone to Mustafar to pick up Anakin, Anakin likely would have writhed there until his will gave out and he died.

    As far as this not being Sithy or whatever, Vader has enough potential as an asset to be worth saving, especially since in the films Palpatine doesn't really have any other potential apprentices.

    It's also an...interesting moment where Palpatine actually seems to care about Anakin in a way that isn't entirely selfish.
     
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  6. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 13, 2014
    Yes and no. But ultimately no.

    If Anakin is as talented and powerful as he needs to be in order to be a Sith Apprentice, then Anakin needs to face danger and survive. So Palpatine is not protecting Anakin from situations where he could be injured or killed. If anything Palpatine is testing Anakin to see if he has what it takes.

    On the other hand Palpatine does help Anakin by opening up certain opportunities. Palpatine gives Anakin support and guidance. Palpatine got Anakin on the Jedi Council. He encourages Anakin's ambitions and self motivation. Also Palpatine as Chancellor is one of the most powerful, influential, and recognized beings in the galaxy. Anakin being his friend and having personal access to the Chancellor also may protect Anakin from somethings. Palpatine also is much more fatherly and approachable to Anakin than say Yoda or Mace Windu.

    But ultimately Palpatine befriended Anakin out of purely selfish reasons. He's encouraging the young Jedi so he can later manipulate him for his own purposes and turn him against his friends, family, and the Jedi Order. Keeping Darth Vader alive after losing the duel with Obi-Wan seems like protection. But putting him in his life support armor allows Palpatine to keep his apprentice and his own power. Even the free trip to the Opera Anakin gets is interrupted by a story.

    My questions - and one for a different thread of it own - Did Palpatine know in advance Darth Vader would lose the fight with Obi-Wan, leaving Vader to weak to ever over thrown him on his own?
     
  7. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 13, 2014


    It seems like Palpatine actually "cares" about Anakin. And during Palpatine's duel with Yoda you get this bit of dialogue from Darth Sidious: You will not stop me! Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!

    The way Sidious says this sounds like actual pride and admiration for Darth Vader and his powers.
     
  8. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2013
    Generally in PT.
     
  9. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 10, 2017
    Nah.

    I haven't really seen anything to indicate that. He manipulated him into a position to fall to the Dark Side, but, if he had died at some point to a stronger dark sider, he would have just proven himself too weak to be his apprentice. He rebuilt him after Mustafar out of self interest.
     
  10. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 24, 2005
    If he were really trying to protect Anakin, he would’ve stressed he’d adhere to the Jedi Code and follow his master’s teachings.
     
  11. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014

    Also gives him some sort of character as opposed to the moustache twirling Saturday morning, one dimensional, cartoon villain that most want him to be.
     
  12. Zer0

    Zer0 Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 3, 2012
    He saved him, but I wouldn't say he protected him. He's absolutely selfish through and through.
     
  13. Captaincrunch1967

    Captaincrunch1967 Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 11, 2017
    I don't believe that the Sith are capable of extending power to protect anyone, they're too internally focused, also if the life of a Sith is the continual acquisition of power, Sidious would actually continually expose Anakin to dangerous situation that he would have to come out of stronger and better.

    I do think that Palpatine had a great deal of love for Anakin, he was certainly someone that he cared about. He loved him so much that he probably went against his instincts of leaving a crippled Anakin to die on the rocks.
     
  14. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 24, 2005
    In the novelization, he actually WANTED to leave Anakin to die, but he realized that to find another being just as powerful as Anakin would take a lifetime so he kept walking.
     
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  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Yup - the junior novelization by Patricia C. Wrede, at least. The Matt Stover adult novelization doesn't show Palpatine's thoughts there, by contrast.
     
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  16. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Heck no, he tested him several times; once he had defeated and murdered Dooku, Sidious knew he was worthy/ready of joining the Rule of the Two Sith
     
  17. Dannik Jerriko

    Dannik Jerriko Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 12, 2017
    I always thought that, by the time he was Kentucky-fried on Mustafar, Vader had already largely fulfilled his purpose to Palpatine. The Jedi were effectively wiped out by one of their own and the foundations were laid for the Galactic Empire. After that point, Vader was essentially Palpatine's enforcer.

    Don't get me wrong, Anakin/Vader is by far my favourite Star Wars character and I don't mean to diminish his importance to the OT. However, from Palpatine's perspective, I'm not sure what a post-Mustafar Vader really brought to the table. Vader's prowess was certainly diminished and I suspect that Palpatine simply kept him around until a more powerful apprentice would present himself. Palpatine was hardly dripping sentiment when he told Luke to kill Vader and "take your father's place at my side".

    That said, there is one detail in RotS that gives me some pause for thought on this matter. When Palpatine finds Vader suffering on Mustafar, he places his hand on his forehead. This always struck me as a very personal and intimate gesture. In that moment, Palpatine appeared to show genuine paternal concern for Vader.
     
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I liked the "Palpatine is using the Force to prevent Vader from dying" theory that the junior ROTS novel seemed to be going with.
     
  19. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 27, 2016
    He sure was certain Vader would protect him when luke took his swing at him in RotJ.

    Great moment. Great shot. Great laugh. Great timing in the cut to the next scene...
     
  20. Dannik Jerriko

    Dannik Jerriko Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 12, 2017
    To be honest, I had never heard that explanation before. It does make sense and plays into the Darth Plagueis conversation from earlier in the movie " He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying".
     
  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It would also mean that his "That power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret" claim is obfustication -

    he already knows the secret - he just doesn't want to share it with Anakin, since he needs to keep Anakin manipulatable.
     
  22. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Knight star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    I think you answered your own question there. If he expected/planned for the Mustafar fight, he wouldn't say that to Yoda. Instead he'd be like, "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen. Even the duel between Obi Wan and Vader will turn out to my advantage."
     
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  23. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Knight star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    By the way, I wonder what happened to Commander Cody. You know, the guy who was supposed kill Obi Wan on Utapau.
     
  24. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 13, 2014
    Cody was a good soldier, one of the best Clones in the army. And his familiarity with Obi-Wan and Jedi in general could be very valuable post war. Darth Vader couldn't stop Obi-Wan, what was a Clone supposed to do.

    My hope is that Commander Cody continued to serve with the Empire with no negative repercussions for Utapau. Of course he's in brainwashed mode forever more but he's doing what he was designed for.

    Some years latter Cody was either killed in action or retired off to the Old Clones Home.

    It'd be interesting if a renegade Rex crossed paths with Cody ten years after the Clone Wars. How would that end?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  25. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Knight star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    Well Cody had the advantage of a surprise attack with multiple soldiers at once. The other Jedi were all shot repeatedly by multiple clones simultaneously (the two Jedi leading foot soldiers were each shot by a whole group of clones, the two Jedi who were flying got repeatedly shot by two planes each, and Yoda was about to attacked by two clones). But with Obi Wan, Cody only ordered one shot at him.
    Furthermore, Cody initially knew they were supposed to find the body to confirm his death, but after searching for a while with no results, he just assumed Obi Wan must have died, and decided to leave Utapau. Had he reported the situation to Sidious, Sidious might have taken precautions (like hiding Padme somewhere, or sending an army of clones with Vader to Mustafar, or holding off wiping out the separatists until they've finished dealing with the Jedi).

    But then again, Cody is just a clone. Sidious failed to train them properly and give foolproof instructions. And good point, Cody's familiarity with Obi-Wan can be useful in the future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019