Do you think Palpatine was impressed with OBW?

In TPM OBW kills Maul - the apprentice of Palpatine - who is a powerful and skilled Sith.

In AOTC Dooku wants OBW to join him. He has heard rumours about him - from Yoda it seems - and there is the possible memory of Qui-Gon still lingering.

In ROTS OBW gets pawned by Dooku before Palpatine's eyes. However, after it is OBW's cunning that gets them out of the situation. He also shows great skill. Later in the movie he takes care of GG without great difficulty. At the end of the movie he takes care of Palpatine's third apprentice - Vader. Quite a record for the guy

Do you ever think that Palpatine was truly impressed with OBW, and at some time maybe wanted OBW to be his new apprentice? - had it not been for his devotion to the light-side and the Jedi ofcourse Or is it possible that Palpatine simply underestimated OBW, and hence he never saw him as a threat to Vader?

 

Well, Obi-Wan Kenobi always seems to be indirectly responsible (in the movies that is) for advancing Palpatine's rise to power. He destroys Darth Maul making the way for Count Dooku's lead in the Separatist Movement, he discovers the Clone Army which thrusts the Clone Wars onto the galaxy only days later, he destroys General Grievous leaving only the Separatist Council, and single-handedly assures Darth Vader will never directly attempt to overthrow Darth Sidious. For all he's worth, the only good thing Obi-Wan did to help the galaxy was begin to train Luke Skywalker in the ways of the Force. Sure, Palpatine could have been impressed by Obi-Wan's cunning but Anakin was always the big prize waiting in the wings. I don't think he ever had any intentions or even a single thought to lure Obi-Wan to the Dark Side.

 

Nah. Palpatine had nothing but contempt for the man who was trying to interfere with his plans. He was too busy eyeing Anakin who had the potential to be the best ever. And besides, Obi-wan was too well versed in the Jedi way. Anakin wasn't and thus was vulnerable for it.

 

Sure he hated him, but don't you think somewhere along the way he actually though "jeez this Jedi is actually pretty darn good." Also, the whole "use your anger it will make you stronger" lecture, and the Sith being stronger than the Jedi was kind of ruined by OBW's victory over Vader!! But yeah, something tells me that good old Palps would've liked to get his hands on OBW

 

I'd say he probably had a professional respect for him, but hated him to the bone. Obi-Wan was one of those pure Jedi, beyond corruption, a pillar of tradition, loyalty, strength, honor and humility. Fortunately for Sidious, Obi-Wan couldn't be converted. If he had, a Darth Tyranus/Obi-Wan duo would have been practically unstoppable.

 

Do you mean that OBW was THAT powerful, or that together they would be that poweful, resourceful and clever/cunning?

 

Palpatine wasn't impressed by Obiwan. He makes that clear in the ROTS novel. He views Kenobi as a very stupid, confused guy. After Palpatine sees Kenobi go down to Dooku on the Invisible Hand, I'm sure there is very little interest from Palpatine. Palpatine hated Kenobi, hence Commander Cody is the first to recieve Order 66, so Kenobi can be the first Jedi to go down.

 

Then I would say that Palpatine was a very stupid, confused guy. OBW survived the purge and nearly killed Palpatine's new apprentice - after killing his first one...

 

He hates Obi Wan, he is probably glad on some level that he messed up Vader so that he the power advantage over him. But when Luke shows up, Palps wants a trade-in for a new Skywalker.

 

IMO, Palpatine saw Obi-Wan as perhaps the only Jedi capable of posing a serious threat to his plans for Anakin, and ergo, his plans for the galaxy. Obi-Wan was virtually the only Jedi Anakin still trusted as of ROTS, and the influence he had in Anakin's life was such that Palpatine wanted him out of the way before he attempted to turn Anakin.

Certainly, Yoda and Mace were probably greater direct threats. But Obi-Wan posed a different sort of danger: the danger of being the only man able to keep Anakin from turning.


I think that Palpatine viewed Obi-Wan as a very potent threat, and probably hated him to the core.

 

Outstanding observation, LordVader66!!

Did you also see the foreshadowing of what was to come with Anakin onboard the Hand? Just watch as Kenobi climbs the stairs, when he cuts down the battle-droid, he chops off one arm and both legs... I think it was Sinister who pointed that one out to me a while back.


BackOnTopic:

Sidious thought so highly of Obi-wan that he orchestrated Kenobi's selection as the Jedi to confront the droid General. He knew the Council would balk at his recommendation that Skywalker be the Jedi for the job. He was confident that Grievous would overwhelm Kenobi, thus clearing his path to finally corrupt and turn Skywalker to the darkside. Apparently, Dooku didn't teach him well enough.


I doubt Sidious saw Kenobi as anything more than a Jedi-fly in his bowl of Sith-soup.

 

Sidious no doubt hates Kenobi, but there's no way he thinks Kenobi is stupid or confused. Whoever wrote that novel hasn't been watching the movies. Sidious knows that Kenobi killed Darth Maul in single combat. He advises Padme to allow Kenobi and Skywalker to guard her, so that Anakin can grow more attached to Padme, and Kenobi can investigate Jango Fett's assassination attempts. Sidious knows that Kenobi will not fail, that he will find Kamino, thus beginning the Clone Wars, which Sidious has patiently orchestrated. He is so threatened by Kenobi that he suggests leaving him on the Seperatist ship to die, which was a pretty bold move to do right in front of Anakin. When he tells Anakin that the Jedi are the enemy of the Republic, he makes sure to mention Obi-Wan by name, as he knows that Kenobi has more sway over Anakin than Yoda or any other Council member. He never underestimated Kenobi's skill or intelligence.

 

The novel in question being the RotS novelization by Matthew Stover, and I don't recall Palpatine ever thinking anything like that. In fact, he specifically states that Obi-Wan has to be removed in order for Anakin's turn to be successful. He sees Obi-Wan as a threat to his plans - the whole Utapau mission was a trap for Obi-Wan, to get him out of the way, and possibly killed. It is here also that Sidious notes Obi-Wan would never turn to the dark side, as he is too pure a Jedi, after Dooku suggests turning Kenobi rather than the more unstable Skywalker.

 

When palpatine requested Obi-wan and Anakin to protect padme, i think he was hoping that Obi-wan would run into fett and that fett would kill him. If fett didn't kill him, palpatine probably figured that Obi-wan would run into Dooku, and that Dooku would probably kill him, which almost happened.

 

Maybe I should clarify. Palpatine saw all the Jedi as misguided and confused about the Force, from his POV. Perhaps stupid isn't the right word. When talking to Count Dooku before Anakin and Kenobi show up, he makes this clear. Dooku still wants to recruit Kenobi. Palpatine says no, that he "has been poisoned by Jedi fables" that there is no way Kenobi can be turned because "he believes he serves the Force itself" and Palptine says "reality is nothing in the face of such conviction". Palpatine probably hates Kenobi more than any other Jedi because A. he killed Maul and B. he is negatively influencing Anakin Skywalker. He thinks all the Jedi are a lost cause. BUT I don't think he would want Kenobi because he's looking at it in terms of raw power. Kenobi is in his prime during ROTS, Anakin is just starting to enter his. Dooku wants Kenobi at his side because of Kenobi's credibility for the new Sith Empire. Not to mention Dooku thinks of Kenobi like a grandson. But Palpatine just strictly wants the most powerful guy, and that is Anakin Skywalker.

 

I think the only points where Obi Wan MIGHT have been considered by Sidious were when he was teetering on the dark side of the force in Ep 1 and Ep 2. By ROTS, he is a jedi MASTER and not teetering at all, so after that, absolutely not.

 

I dont think Palpatine ever considered Obi-wan a "worthy" apprentice. Obi-wan was never greatly tempted by the dark side in the way Anakin had been. Anakin had greater potential than Obi-wan even though he lost a lot of it on Mustafar. By ANH I think Darth Vader and Obi-wan were about equal. Even if Palpatine had considered him Obi-wan wasent as attracted to the dark side and wouldnt have joined.

 

definately, tho I dont think as much as he was with anakins performance!

 

Good clarification, but it still does not explain why Palpatine should wish to recruit Dooku. Sure Dooku had ideas that differed from the Jedi in general, but he was still a Jedi. His ideas were not very different, I suppose, than those of Qui-Gon. And I don't think that Qui-Gon would ever turn...

Palpatine wants the most powerful guy, and is blinded by that vision. Dooku wants the best guy, which he thinks is OBW. Not solely because he is powerful, but also because he is patient, wise and resourceful. In many ways I think Dooku was correct. But OBW would never turn, as you all have pointed out.

What I'm thinking is that Palpatine must have thought at one point "I may have been wrong about the Jedi". He always saw the Sith as much stronger than the Jedi. In which case Vader should have no problem with OBW, and Sideous should have no problem with Yoda or Mace. In all cases that turned out wrong. Especially OBW must have messed up his philosophy by killing Maul and defeating Vader...

 

He knew OBW was a quality JEDI and he knew Anakin listened to him - after all he managed to make it so it was Obi who left Anakin at the time he needed to turn him to the dark side. He knew Anakin would go to Obi (and not Mace) had he been around and then Anakin couldn't have been turned. And he knows he is a quality JEDI but he simply believes the SITH are much better than a Jedi and didn't see him as a direct threat to his EMPIRE. He underrestimated Obi but knew of his influence over Anakin.

 

Dooku was learning sith knowledge off and on during his Jedi career from the sith holocrons in the temple archives. Between that, Dooku being an elitist, his skills, and Dooku not being a Jedi anymore, he was pretty much the best recruit to fill in until Anakin was old enough. Dooku served his purpose.

 

He definitely saw Obi-Wan as a threat to Anakin

PALPATINE: Every single Jedi, including your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi, is now an enemy of the Republic. You understand that, don't you?
ANAKIN: I understand, Master.

And he definitely pinned a lot of hopes on Anakin, unlike the Jedi

YODA: (continuing) If so powerful you are, why leave??
YODA ignites his lightsaber.
DARTH SlDIOUS: You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us.

I'm not sure how much Palpatine respected Obi-Wan's saber skills, but Obi-Wan was a threat to his strategies, maybe Palpatine respects that.

Also, I just noticed how clarvoyant Palpatine and Yoda were. Darth Vader _did_ become more powerful than Sidious, when he threw him down the reactor shaft, not exactly what he expected. Yoda was right too, "faith in your new apprentice, misplaced may be" Together they wouldve had a pretty good look at the future maybe.

 

Yes, I think Yoda's line "faith in your new apprentice, misplaced may be" is simply wonderful!!

Yoda and Sideous as a team, now that would be interesting

 

There is a difference between liking someone and having professional respect for them. I think Sidious probably had a wealth of professional respect for Obi-Wan, yet at the same time despising him. I disagree with an earlier comment that Sidious orchestrated Obi-Wan to go to Utapau so Grievy could kill him...He did orchestrate Kenobi being chosen, but the reasoning is wrong. He did it for two reasons: He WANTED Kenobi to kill Grievy, as his part in the Clone Wars was finished, and represented a loose end to be tied up, as with the seperatists, who Anakin disposes of on Mustafar. It also got Kenobi off of Coruscant, giving himself the only voice inside Anakin's brain. To simplify it, Sidious is the devil, Kenobi the angel sitting on Anakins shoulder. Get rid of the Angel, the only voice for Anakin to listen to is Sidious...The last thing Sidious needed when he chose to finally reel Anakin in was for Kenobi to be there. Anybody who Sidious could consider as a serious threat to his power would have to be someone Sidious was impressed with. If Sidious wasn't impressed by him, he wouldn't have gone to the lengths he did to make sure he was out of the way...

Now, with that said, IF, and this is a major hypothetical, IF Kenobi had been "turnable", he would have made a GREAT Sith Lord. Personalitywise, the best villians aren't the outright monsters, but, the patient ones who bide their time. An evil Kenobi would be able to corrupt people in much the same way Sidious does...slowly, so they don't realize they are being corrupted. Kenobi would have made a GREAT second in command.

 

I think its in some obscure eu novel (!) that Palpatine refers to Obi Wan as being "lucky". He refuses to give him any respect whatsoever. I'd go along with that.

When he says "I sense Lord Vader is in danger", its as if he can't quite believe it.