Do you think you would still like the PT as much if Lucas used the OT Special Effects?

This is totally hypothetical, but I am interested to see your responses. If Lucas never made the SE of the OT, and just kept the O-OT, and filmed the PT in the style of the Special Effects, more sets, and more locations, do you think you would like it as much?

I guess the second question is, are special effects gravy to you a SW fan, and it still is the story & the characters that make the movies what they are? Or are Special Effects and the look of the movies just as important as the story & characters?

Just wondering....

 

Mmmmmmmmm. Gravy... (ahhhhhh) lol

 

Yeah, I'd still like em long as the duelling was as slick as it is. And that's not really a special effect, so it counts.

 

Special effects are important in terms of having the right atmosphere and settings to make the surroundings and space scenes more realistic. It's not the essential part for me though. I lived with the ESB yoda puppet before the CGI Yoda and it works just fine for me. Too many special effects can sometimes hinder the reality. Even the most recent SFX/CGI bonanza that is ROTS has some flawed scenes.

The story is more important than the visualisation, although as an overall they do go hand in hand. Especially as this is a Sci-fi movie.

 

If anything, I might even like them more.

I mean, The PT has a cool story line of Anakin becomming Darth Vader, has some sick lightsaber duels and the occasional sick FX. But I think it makes the whole image of Star Wars a little more....unnecessarily cartoonish. I don't like the idea of being able to define the quality of a movie on the FX use, but the PT overdid it alittle. Considering its a joined Trilogy and the Originals technically look like crap in FX Wise.

But the thing I liked about the OT with the lack of overused fx is that...it actually looked real.

 

The difference in visual effects makes more sense if you look at this Saga as having two trilogies set in different eras of the same storyline...because that's essentially what Lucas did with the Prequels.

He used the lack of technology within the storyline of the Original Trilogy and the making of those films to his advance when doing the storyline and production of the Prequels.

 

I think the PT would have looked very classy with more location shooting. Imagine a location like the desert/mountains in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - with Jedi doing battle, covered in dust and dirt, against the enemy.

I think SW technology and weaponry looks great in real life physical locations/sets. But when the backgrounds are fake as well - it looks like a cartoon.

AOTC for example, has a Clone War that alternates between 100% computer graphics and Samuel L Jackson standing in a sandpit in a big blue room.

 

Well this isn't a loaded question. At the risk of sounding hollow, no i wouldn't like them as much. Part of the beauty of star wars is the special effects. I love the opening of AOTC when they fly into coruscant. I love Mustafar, I love the Battle of Yoda and Dooku, infact I love the CG yoda. I love every shot of Coruscant. WHile I would still like them for the story, the charecters, and for finally seeing Jedi doing their thing, they would be missing a vital part of Star Wars.

Seriously would star wars be nearly as enjoyable if it were filmed in the style of Lost in space, or perhaps in the style of the silent films, with an orchestra in the background. Part of what is great with all the episodes of the Saga is the gound breaking fx. Of coarse I like the SE and clone wars cartoons, so take it as you may.

 

NO! OT special effects alone wouldn't have worked in the PT. You couldn't have devloped enviroments like Corucant, Mustafar and Kamino using OT Only SFX. Any attempt would have looked exceptionally poor, I think.

 

I woulden't mind one bit. Everytime I watch a SW movie, even on my first viewing, I NEVER really paid any attention to the effects. It was and is all about the story, the characters and the emotion for me.

And you know what?

I love all SW movies.

 

This is actually a very interesting question. Star Wars, after all, was built on a foundation of solid special effects (Even if the OT effects do not look special anymore).

There are times in the PT that I was absolutely blown away in the theaters by an effect. The AoTC Seismic charge that Jango laid comes immediately to mind. Coruscant also does.

There are also times such as the battle of Coruscant that seemed just toooooo busy for me.

Can I keep the effects I liked and make the ones I did not OT effects?

Carnage

 

I could see it done at much more expense, but still wouldnt be as good.

 

If Lucas could tell the same story using OT special effects without altering it too much I wouldn't mind. Unfortunately, I don't think that's possible. Some things such as Yoda vs. Dooku or the ROTS opening space battle are just impossible to do any other way.

 

Models, sets, CGI . . .

. . . the 70's, today . . .

. . . the special effects/visuals in each STAR WARS episode are astounding and top notch. I'm glad George Lucas and ILM were making the decisions of whether to use a special effect and what special effect to use and where and when and how to use it.

It's all STAR WARS and immediately recognizable as STAR WARS.

And it all feels like STAR WARS.

 

As long as none of the story would have to be sacrificed, I think I'd be just fine.

Could Yoda and Sideous duel in the Senate chamber? Probably not. And we'd lose that awesome shot of the pillar rising into the chamber with the war drums and music.
Hell, could he have Yoda fight Sideous at all? Possibly. They'd have to use obvious tricks like a midget in a suit and a taler man playing Sideous (to keep the heights right), but it could work.

Jar Jar would just be a guy in a suit and make-up. He could still step in crap and be farted on.

Watto, ditto. And no flight.

Dexter could still be there as well as the diner, but he'd lose two arms.

Coruscant would lose a lot of its granduer as would the other planets.

So... I think everything would essentially be the same... just... a lot less grand.

 

Exactly. I think the underlying story is good and that is what matters. I would probably still like the PT films even if they refused to use any effects not around in 1983.

 

QFT!

am i totally weird because i prefer the model ships to the CGI ones?

to me the fighters in ANH look so much better than anything else i've ever seen in any film i am at a loss for words.

I don't think the opening battle of RotS could be done with models very well and that would be ah uge loss so i would not want to see it refilmed with models but I do love the effects of the OT.

So to answer the original question Yes i would like it at least as much as i do now.

Effects don't make a movie, stories do, i haven't seen any really "bad effects" in any star wars film except maybe the matte line around the rancor LOL.

 

I prefer whatever looks best. Honestly I think most of the effects in the PT look fine. I'll take CG Dex over puppet Jabba any day. I have no issue suspending my disbelief for the sake of a good story. Isn't that what moviegoing is all about? Well... at least it used to be. Now everyone has become an expert on effects. "How was the new movie?" "Oh the effects were awesome!" Well... I didn't ask about the effects nor do I really care that much. But that seems to be one of the first sentences out of people's mouths these days... something about the effects.

 

The story and characters should always come first, and the SFX should be used to support them, not the other way around. I could see a happy medium where the best effects method was used that best helped tell the story; as in LOTR, where models, CGI, real locations, and both real and digital actors were all used, many times in the same scene/shot.
David Cronnenberg, on the commentary for The Fly said that he could use CGI for the Brundlefly today, and would gain some qualities like mobility; but he would lose things like the tactile quality of the original model. So effects are not good or bad in and of themselves, but in how their used, and if they support the movie or distract from it.

 

That is hilarious. While pretending to ask an innocent question we get hit with the old tried and true PT attack that he sacrificed story for effects. Very clever.

Now let me dispell this myth once and for all. (Not that those responsible will ever bother to read this, or if they do acknowledge the fact) The truth is that Lucas wrote the story first in BOTH instances. He didn't write around effects, he took his imagination as far as it could go in his head, and then had to have it tied down by the limitations of the visual effects of the time. In the OT that meant he couldn't have Yoda move more the 3 feet in any scene. His ships had to be static and couldn't flow through space. His other worlds had to be either tied to something filmable here on earth, or be built as a straight set with Matte paintings in the background. In other words, he took his first three films as far as he could go with practical special effects, with ILM inventing countless techniques to take them just a step farther when they could.

Then comes the digital age, and ILM shows they can make dinosaurs walk the earth again. It wasn't that Lucas saw this and decided to make more special effects movies. He saw this event as unshackling the chains that held his imagination back. Now Bespin could really be a city in the clouds instead of pastel corridors and a single matte painting. He could create whole new worlds. Creatures that didn't look like some guy in a rubber mask, or worse, a muppet. He could make Yoda move, be alive, and most important, have real emotions. The advent of CG didn't ruin these movies as some would claim. They took off the blinders and proved that if you could dream it, you could make it.

I'm not saying that you have to like everything in the PT, or that every scene looked perfectly real. Not remotely. But it's a falsehood to claim he cared more about effects than story. That he didn't love SW the way we do. That's clearly not the case. The CG was a means to an end. Not a replacement of the story, but a way to tell a story to it's fullest extent. In answer to the original post, there wouldn't BE a PT without modern effects, just as there wouldn't have been an OT had they not figured out how to push the envelope of effects at the time. He waited for technology to catch up with his imagination. He knew he couldn't make the Old Republic of his dreams with Matte paintings. So he rented ILM out to continue to develop their skills while he pushed technology as well with Young Indiana Jones until he could do what he dreamt of.

 

Im perfectly happy with the OT fx, especially the ships. However, i think that sfx Yoda was required...I think puppet Yoda is just a joke now.

 

QFT.

I'd be content no matter how it was done. The stories were written with both in mind, as Roland noted. Go read those screenplays again.

 

I don't watch the PT for special effects, neither do I watch the OT for special effects. I watch the movies for a fantastic story and unforgettable characters. Special effects have no inlfuence on my review of a movie. It gets annoying when people suggest that some people like the PT only for it's special effects, I watch the PT on the other hand to watch the downfall of the chosen one and the downfall of the Jedi order and the rise of the sith, I am only a fan of the saga not a OT or PT fan!

 

the point where i differ is that lucas wrote the story for the PT and used effects to support it.

the entire droid factory sequence was added to AotC at the last minute as a special effects celebration that adds nothing to the story.

what it did do is take away time from telling parts of the story that would have added to the basic plot, such as the jedi assault on the droid control ship.

the rest of your post i agree with, however lucas did lose sight of using special effects to support the story after TPM, that movie does remain true to this rule and that is a part of why i think it is the best of the PT.

after that film i think lucas got very caught up in doing what he could do and did not ask himself as much how it affected the story, i think he lost sight of the forest because he couldn't see it through the trees.

 

A PT with OT effects could work, you'd just have to compromise many things, like Lucas did in the old days. The Pod Race would have to be done with miniatures and steadycams (like the Speederbike chase), Battledroids would have to be "thick" enough to put a human inside (like Threepio), Watto/Kaminoans/Jar-Jar and other CG characters would have to be rubber masks, traditional body-doubles and stuntmen instead of digital face-swapping, make Naboo/Mustafar/Kamino closed environments (like Bespin), film Geonosis out in the desert using lots of extras, build actual Stormtrooper suits, use lots of men in suits for the Naboo battle using non-moving tanks, more "static" space battle in ROTS, no digital removal of lost limbs, no CG fighting Yoda (but the puppet could still duel with the Force), smaller Senate, less expansive Coruscant (worked in Blade Runner, still looks perfect), no putting multiple "Jango" faces in one scene (remember how they did it in the 80's? there was always a black faded line between the same characters if they appeared together).

Come to think of it, I'd love to see how it all would look.