Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by Lurknomore, Mar 21, 2014.
Or do you feel it would cheapen the ending of ROTJ?
Depends who's using it. If Palpatine or an apprentice of his appears, go ahead. If a villain with no connection to Palpatine appears, a light-side using villain would be far more interesting. The dark side takes interesting people and turns them into people who can't do anything better than shout, "unlimited powah!".
I would love to see "gray side users" like the Je'daii.
No matter what happens, the events surrounding the end of RotJ will still have happened and the effects would still be felt. IMO of course
Really, if you want to play the "cheapen" card, then the ST in and of itself can be viewed as cheapening the end of RotJ. That's not my view on the matter, but still.
Depends on how it returns. Favorably no sith ghosts/clones/resurrections/"I wasn't even dead in the first place"....
How is this even a question? I mean from a pure business perspective this is absolutely going to happen.
It is probable that the prophecy was, as Yoda suggested, misread. I have no doubt that Anakin was the chosen one, but the balance of the Force was not meant to last forever. He didn't destroy the Dark Side of the Force but he destroyed its most powerful users, the Sith, bringing balance. I'm hoping in the ST we'll find out the exact wording of the prophecy, perhaps found in a lost archive in the ruins of the old Jedi Temple or somewhere else. Regardless of the explanation we get, the Dark Side and likely the Sith will be back, it makes sense for the economic success of the ST.
Star Wars can easily work without any Force or Jedi/Sith and still be fun - but not in the main Saga storyline. There, we definetly need the dark vs. light conflict and it's going to happen.
The dark side itself is something that continually exists. I don't really think it can be destroyed as it is not a concrete, existing physical (or even ethereal) thing that can be destroyed or repaired or "make a comeback." It's all about how you use the Force itself, which is in everything and everyone. The dark side cannot be destroyed no more than the light side can be.
That being said, there are dozens of ways to introduce a new, formidable dark side user without resorting to resurrecting old ones.
So yes, there definetly will be dark side in the new Star Wars movies.
Apparently, space and starships are rumored to be in it as well
Well said. I would just add that the ending of ROTJ showed Anakin fulfilling the prophecy because he destroyed the only Sith in existence at that time, thus allowing the Force to return to balance. The dark side itself cannot be destroyed, so there is really no comeback for it to make. A comeback for those who USE the dark side for their own destructive purposes, maybe (probably).
Not really, no. Context is key. When Yoda said that, he was responding to Mace, who was responding to Obi-Wan, who cited the belief that Anakin as the Chosen One was to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force. Since he did in fact do those things, the prophecy was not misread in any meaningful sense relevant to context.
As a part of the Force, it exists to the same extent that the Force itself exists. And the Force exists despite the fact that we can't see it. I can see why "physical" doesn't seem appropriate as a way to describe the Force ( though it is an "energy field" according to Ben ), but "ethereal" certainly applies. But you can't destroy the dark side unless you destroy the Force, because the dark side is an integral part of the Force. This is why we quite conspicuously never see characters on screen fantasizing about the destruction of the dark side, only about the destruction of the Sith.
Right. Many years later, in ROTJ, it's shown that the Jedi were actually correct after all in their reading of the prophecy.
To play devil's advocate;
Maybe the end of RotJ didn't actually fulfill the prophecy, the end was started but there is a little more to do from both the Chosen One and his descendants. Maybe.
It's still possible that the prophecy was fulfilled in ROTJ, because the prophecy called for the Chosen One to destroy the Sith (who are throwing the Force out of balance by using the dark side and making it grow). Anakin did that; Vader (himself) and Palpatine were dead, and there were no living Sith left. But that doesn't mean that the dark side itself was destroyed, so it doesn't rule out the possibility that a future Force user could fall to the dark side.
That doesn't belittle Anakin's acheivement either; in addition to saving his son and destroying the Sith, he helped to bring about the end of the Empire. Of course this could all be cyclical, and that was true even before we knew the ST was coming.
I agree that the prophecy was not misread in the sense that Anakin was the chosen one who would destroy the Sith and bring balance. I said the same. But they might have been wrong in thinking that the Force would stay in balance after he did these things. If the dark side comes back, which most likely will, then the balance would have lasted only 30 years. Some might think that the sequel trilogy would go as far as to change what we know about Anakin and the prophecy, just like some people thought that Luke was actually the chosen one. Many think Palpatine or Plagueis will be back, and if so, that raises the question of another chosen one to destroy him. With the new timeline post-ROTJ being crafted we don't know if the dark side has already come back in the years between ROTJ and the sequels, and since the wording of the prophecy is unknown, the writers of the sequels are free to do with it what they want and I'm sure they will justify the return of the dark side and the Sith while keeping Anakin's legacy and value to the saga.
Ah. But did they really think that? They didn't get that specific.
The dark side itself will have never left. I guess we could say the question is whether or not the imbalance would come back.
Will there be any wars?
Only of words.
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I would bet my life on seeing a conflict between the Light and Dark Side in the ST. That isn't something that can be abandoned in the saga regardless of who is or isn't dead or redeemed.
The prophecy was worded as if Anakin were the Chosen One who would 'bring balance to the Force'. It was never stated that balance was brought by destroying the Sith. It could be that Anakin destroyed both the Sith and the Jedi in his sacrifice (Just as Luke threw down his weapon).
Balance might only be brought by neither the light or the dark remaining above the other.In other words, the Force created the Sith to get rid of all the Jedi, then created Anakin to get rid of Sith, and sacrifice himself also. It never counted on Luke showing up...
Perhaps Luke's desire to recreate the Order will bring the Force out of balance, and we'll go from there in the ST.
It never went away.
But that association was made in ROTS dialogue, because the Sith were the source of the imbalance.
But that's not what happened: by saving Luke, Anakin preserved the future of the Jedi order ( Force ghosts aside ). This action hardly destroyed the Jedi. Luke throwing down his weapon only reinforces his status as a true Jedi, as he proclaims.
Balance of the Force, not balance of the Force-users. The Jedi were not the problem and the Force wouldn't seek to get rid of them. However ineffectual the Jedi are still the "good guys".
No. Luke bringing back the Jedi is portrayed as a good thing, just as restoration of balance to the Force is portrayed as a good thing. A false equivalence between Sith and Jedi would have nothing to do with the story Lucas was trying to tell.
Star Wars will always have Sith and Jedi and just because Palpatine and Vader were killed off in ROTJ does not mean another sith was in hiding till he/she is ready. The prophecy its self was a mystery to the Jedi and if Anakin was the choosen one it could have been him or his bloodline but it started with him.
How about a dark side user who's not evil?
I don't really agree. The Force is not about Good vs. Evil, but the harmonious coexistence of both. Or neither.
If Anakin fulfilled the prophecy, and balance has in fact been restored…what would be the point of the ST?
If Luke re-forms the Jedi Order and there are no more Sith, then there's no point in there being any Jedi at all.
If new Sith emerge then the prophecy was wrong, then Anakin's sacrifice will have meant nothing.