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Discussion Do You Want to See the Dark Side of the Force Make a Comeback?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Lurknomore, Mar 21, 2014.

?

Should the Dark Side be used in Ep VII?

Poll closed Apr 4, 2014.
Yes 52 vote(s) 91.2%
No 5 vote(s) 8.8%
  1. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    1000 BBY - 32 BBY disagree.
  2. Palpatine's P.A. Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2014
    star 2
    Dark side yes, sith no, or it does definitely cheapen the rotj ending. Although what is actually the difference between the dark side and the sith? Except for the rule of two thing, what else is there to the religion/belief?
    Also, if the dark side doesn't return, there is no story to tell really, so of course it will.
  3. WatTamborWoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2011
    star 3
    This.

    Basically if the force is in balance then the light and dark side are in balance. Bringing balance to the force did not make the dark side cease to exist or make the balance permanent. The continuation of the saga, around the Skywalker family, could well be about maintaining the balance between the light and dark side. Episodes VII to IX could be about the threat to the balance.
  4. Buddha Fett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 1999
    star 4
    Last edited by Buddha Fett, Mar 22, 2014
  5. Darth Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 6
    The Dark Side is like, so last century.
  6. Sum-Wan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2013
    star 4
    ^good for you, Darth Vader is dead... he'd find your lack of faith.. well, you know..
    Palp_Fiction likes this.
  7. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 22, 2014
  8. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    One is a side of the Force, the other is a group of people.

    That's the thing. Evil doesn't tend to be into the whole "harmonious coexistence" thing. Specifically, the Sith are not into harmonious coexistence as a goal. Palpatine is into taking over the galaxy, the Empire, that sort of thing. ( It's even worse in EU. ) The Sith pushed the Force out of balance in such a way that the dark side was dominant.

    A new plotline? By the same token one might ask "what was the point of the OT?" since the balance of the Force plotline came later.

    There were Jedi before there were Sith. There are a lot of other potential problems out there that the Jedi would likely be obliged to deal with, and new darksiders could always emerge, even if not part of official Sith lineage.

    I don't recall it being said that the balance would be permanent.

    Only the whole preservation of the Jedi order thing, and with victory over the Empire, the implied restoration of the Republic. These things are meant to be significant.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 22, 2014
    Buddha Fett likes this.
  9. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    To say "harmonious co-existence of good and evil" is like saying "harmonious co-existence of human rights and nazis".
    There's an organization called the Sith. This organization uses a weapon called the dark side.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 22, 2014
  10. Buddha Fett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 1999
    star 4

    Not at all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism
  11. jedijax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2013
    star 6
    To me, SW without the Sith and/or dark side is like having a Biblical story that doesn't include some aspect of Satan and/or sin. It's kind of like the whole reason for religion in the first place-to seek belonging in the light and going to Heaven instead of being consumed by the dark and ending up in Hell.

    There are people who don't want any sort of sith and dark side and also don't want any family lineage from the Skywalker clan. If that's the case, then these new movies really aren't part of the SW saga and should be spin offs themselves.
  12. Palpatine's P.A. Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2014
    star 2
    I know the literal difference; I mean is what is the difference between a dark side USER as opposed to a Sith apart from what I mentioned originally?
    Either way, no dark side means no lightsaber duel in the film, (unless 2 good guys fight each other for practice) which seems unlikely
  13. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Give us some new power different from Force Lightning!
  14. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    A dark side user might or might not be part of the Sith organization. A Sith is by definition part of the Sith organization. All Sith are dark side users but not all dark side users are Sith.
    I second this.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 22, 2014
  15. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Should have been two or three different powers shown in the PT and save the Force Lightning for ROTJ.
    whostheBossk and darklordoftech like this.
  16. markdeez33 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 3
    Dark Side should definitely make a giant impact in Ep 7
  17. Da'wid Yott Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2014
    star 1
    "A dark side user might or might not be part of the Sith organization. A Sith is by definition part of the Sith organization. All Sith are dark side users but not all dark side users are Sith"

    I agree....same with Jedi; not all Force users are Jedi. Aren't the some who are called "Grey Jedi," others who do not associate with the Jedi title. So not all Dark-side users want to be associated with the Sith. I am certain there are plenty of Dark-side users in the galaxy to provide the Jedi Order some challenges. Besides, there tend to be Jedi who lose their focus/direction and eventually give in to their passions and lose control; they do not necessarily have to join the Sith. There's plenty of material out there...
  18. Da'wid Yott Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2014
    star 1
    "How about a dark side user who's not evil?"

    ...That's a good thought. Jedi Masters (Jedi Counsel) seem to be able to "forbid" what can and cannot be learned and used if it is deemed too close to using passion/emotion, thus labeling it Dark-side. So, how far across the Force:Dark-side border does one have to cross before becoming "evil?" Sith use the Dark-side for selfish gain/power...they bathe in it. So if someone uses the Dark-side, but not for "evil/Sith" intents, what would they be doing? Taking revenge against someone who hurt a loved one? Force tossing someone who attempted to steal their crop? Does that make them evil or just "going a little overboard?" Good question!!
  19. Jedsithor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 4
    The balance isn't really between light and dark. It's between the natural and the unnatural. Let's say that across the galaxy, a trillion people got angry at the same time. Would that shift the balance? No. But if just one Sith uses the Force to raise the dead or manipulate the future, using the Force to do the unnatural, that corrupts the Force and that's essentially what the Dark Side is. It's a corruption of the Force, like a cancer. It isn't an equal and opposite "side." That's why the balance can never shift towards the "light" side. What we call the light side is really just the Force in its natural state. A true Jedi can't tip the balance because Jedi are passive. They don't use the Force for unnatural means. The second a Jedi uses the Force in a way it's not supposed to be used, the balance tips towards darkness, not light.

    Certainly, you could have a scene where a Jedi uses Force Lightning to restart someone's heart and save them from death. That can be seen as a selfless and good action. But Force Lightning is unnatural. Using it to save a life is unnatural and leads to the Dark Side. The reason destroying the Sith brings balance to the Force is because the Sith have the knowledge of the dark arts and use that knowledge. Without Sith, there's nobody to corrupt the natural state of the Force. Now, someone can always rediscover the secrets and shift the Force out of balance again, so the Jedi must always remain vigilant.

    For the sequels, I'd like to see a new enemy with a new perspective on the Force. The Jedi-Sith conflict is over. Yes, someone can fall to the Dark Side, discover how to cheat death and start the whole thing rolling again but a new trilogy brings new opportunity. What if the enemy this time has an entirely different philosophy? What if they view both Jedi and Sith as heretics of some kind? There are other galaxies, other civilisations who may have their own beliefs when it comes to the Force. Perhaps an invasion from such a civilisation on a kind of galactic crusade could be an interesting way to maintain Force-strong enemies without the label of Sith.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  20. Darth Punk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 5
    I say pastel force users versus neon force users
  21. plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2013
    star 4
    You wouldn't need the Sith for there to be conflict. It simply that Jedi vs Sith is more dramatic then Jedi vs Non-Sith or Jedi vs Non-Force Sensitives. As Windu says in AOTC, the Jedi are "keepers of the peace, not soldiers."

    Just because the Sith were destroyed at the end of ROTJ, that doesn't mean they can't be reformed or that the Prophecy hasn't been fulfilled. The tools and teachings of the Sith still exist even if there's nobody readily available to take up the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith.
  22. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    When Plagueis and Sidious shifted the balance, it was said: On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended.

    "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there." - Lucas

    The only thing comparable to a cancer in the context of the dark side would be the unbalanced growth of the dark side, not the dark side itself. The dark side in balance with the light side would be analogous to a healthy organ.

    Lucas has indicated on various occasions that the Force in its natural state involves both the light and dark sides, which he collectively called "the core of the Force". Similarly, it is indicated in the Mortis arc that "all light" is an undesirable outcome just like "all dark" would be. All light and no dark - all of one thing and none of the other - would hardly constitute balance.

    The balance of the Force is not quite so fragile. There were Sith around somewhere, "using the Force in a way it's not supposed to be used", during the time period before the Force went out of balance. Thus it is not the mere presence of dark side use itself which unbalances the Force, but something more significant - either "evil taking over" on a galactic scale or the fact that the latter-day Sith developed the ability to influence the balance directly.
  23. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    What was GL thinking? The definition of the word "evil" is "something that the world would be better off without."
  24. thejeditraitor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 6
    the force is always there to be manipulated so the dark side will always come back. there can't be a light side using bad guy. it doesn't work that way. if you're using the force for evil it's the dark side.
    Last edited by thejeditraitor, Mar 23, 2014
  25. thejeditraitor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 6

    this exactly. the prophecy is proven correct in the final minutes of the film. this is beyond debate.
    EHT likes this.