Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by Lurknomore, Mar 21, 2014.
As long as we're quoting Lucas...
exactly. no debate.
Just want to share a few thoughts. I personally feel the dark side will play a crucial role in the ST. I have a few reasons for this.
1. The vagueness of the prophecy. We do not have a single sentence form the actual prophecy. All we have are personal interpretations. Even the closest word for word ideas we get state that the chosen one will bring balance to the force. No direct determination is given on how the chosen one is selected, how he brings balance to the force, and whether this newfound balance would lost forever. The fact the force is out of balance implies there was a standard for balance in the beginning. In other words. The force had to fall out of balance once. What would keep it form doing so again. More importantly, what action did Anakin take that would prevent it form ever falling back into balance. There has yet to be a single satisfactory answer to this point that I have seen.
2. Nothing is preventing the sith themselves form returning. They could have a new sith. It does not need to be Palpatine, or even be an apprentice to Palpatine despite what others say. Sith is a religion. It is an ideology. Would it perhaps transition smother if the character were an apprentice of Palpatine. For some it might, but it really does not make a lick of difference to me. Part of me actually wants to avoid any secret apprentice issue.
3. The return of the dark side and even the sith does not cheapen what Anakin did. This argument genuinely irks me. Especially when it is implied that even the dark side itself being around would cheapen the ending of the Return of the Jedi. It is basically like saying any sacrifice made in a war to bring down an evil regime or dictator in the real world is pointless because later one there is just another evil regime or dictator. It is silly. Sometimes the point of sacrifice and fighting against evil in the present is to simply stand up against the evil in the present. That is the ultimate message of hope in the battle of good against evil isn't it? No matter how much evil rears it ugly head good will always be there to block its path. It just doesn't work. The only thing that could potentially cheapen Anakin's actions is a return of Palpatine himself, and even then I would reserve judgment until seeing the story to its end.
4. If the sith do not return and we have a new dark side order (Something I would not be opposed to be incredible hesitant with) they would have to spend an incredible amount of time educating the audience to show just how these new guys are different. Some people say it would be simple, but I would want know simple concept to it. The audience first needs to be educated to exactly what a sith was in the first place considering anyone who has just been a causal viewer consider them to be anyway ho uses the dark side, and instead flesh them out clearly. Form there they must then present a radically different form of dark side user. It cannot be different in name only. It would not take well.
No evil in the ST? Fun.
"I am getting ready to make a comeback."--The Darkside of the Force
i meant the "fulfilling the prophecy" part. i missed the evil part. obviously there will always be evil. but anakin fulfilled the "chosen one" prophecy.
The Sith from the other movies may have been destroyed, but the teachings, possible archives, and other sources of sith philosophy are out there. There's nothing to say that someone can't come across it and basically start the sith again.
Remember, to the sith, the Jedi were destroyed as well. They probably had their own prophecy which stated that someone will rise up and destroy the Jedi forever.
Maybe the whole damn Force needs to be destroyed to stop all of this bickering once and for all.
I guess there will always be evil now (for the ST). Before the ST, George said it was going to be gone.
The big question imo isn't whether the darkside will be back, but whether or not it will begin to dominate the lightside again.
I think the Sith will be back, and the whole challenge of the Jedi will be to stop them from becoming as powerful as Sidious had become.
The prophecy should remain fulfilled, whether or not that precludes dark side users from showing up.
there will obviously be dark side users and maybe sith wannabes but no one could possibly be as strong as plagueis, sidious and vader. those were the established super powerful sith and they were destroyed.
"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be...unnatural."
I'd love for this line to be elaborated further in the ST, by showing us new ways that the dark side can be used that have yet to be shown in the films or any of the other onscreen media. The EU has given us plenty of examples of dark siders and Sith using dark side powers never shown in the films. Given that Palpatine's line to Anakin referred to Plagueis' ability to manipulate the midi-chlorians to create life and save others from death, it would be neat to see this power onscreen, especially if Plagueis were to make a comeback. After all, the ability to save others from dying was something Anakin desperately wanted to learn from as early as AotC and was a huge cause of his fall in RotS. Bringing this idea back to the forefront is one way to intimately connect the saga together while giving us a dark side power that while mentioned before, has never been shown onscreen.
I am certain the dark side will play a big role in the ST, and I expect it to be wielded expertly and in new ways by the trilogy's villain(s). I look forward to seeing some new powers and abilities that could genuinely surprise us, like the Emperor firing lightning from his fingertips when one first saw RotJ before the prequels.
Their prophecy spoke of the 'destruction' of the Sith, but in the context of ultimately making them stronger.
What if the Force itself that comes under threat, not just a particular side? The Force is created and maintained by life. As long as life exists, the Force will exist. But what if life ceased to exist? This is moving beyond space adventure to deeper fantasy but imagine a group, neither Jedi or Sith, whose sole purpose is to destroy the Force and the only way to do that is to eradicate all life. Perhaps for them, light side and dark side are irrelevant and in their minds, the Force as a whole has an opposite, a counter or anti-Force. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Or to put it another way, if the Force is life, then what is death? Not death as in the netherworld of the Force, but true oblivion.
Such a conflict could bring the story to an even higher cosmic scale and it could be a way to have a greater role for Force Ghosts. If Luke dies in one of these movies, he could still play an important role in protecting the Force itself from annihilation.
Of course, that kind of story would be the Star Wars equivalent of Ragnarok or Revelation. Would it push Star Wars to far into the realm of fantasy? Perhaps but at the same time, simply having a new group of Sith show up would completely undermine the previous six films.
Go back to my original post, read it all and you will see I never said the prophecy wasn't fulfilled, then read my second post if you still don't get my meaning.
That was when the story was finished. It is now continuing. The prophecy is totally up for debate as we no longer know the outcome for sure, nor the direction the story will go in.
And there is a thread to prove it;
To be clear, I was using Lucas's quote in juxtaposition of the other quote that was posted about how both the good and evil side have to be there. The point being that there are different ways to look at it, even from Lucas's point of view, that he could have easily changed his mind about any of it, and that nothing is certain going into the ST except for the fact that the Dark Side will be present and used in the films because that's just inherent in the nature of this series.
"Don't call it a comeback, I've been her for years!"
^ Dammit, why didn't I think of posting that?
@StoneRiver - "That was when the story was finished. It is now continuing. The prophecy is totally up for debate as we no longer know the outcome for sure, nor the direction the story will go in. "
Totally agree; Ep.VII is written (of course subject to tweaks), but we cannot will it to be what we want it to be based on our opinions and even back-history of Ep's I - VI. This is Disney's gig now with JJ at the helm. I know he will respect all the fans and the material, but he will bring his interpretation into the mix (which I do not mind) and the prophecy may be an integral part of the story, or not at all. It truly is up for debate until the end-credits roll...
The true meaning of the Prophecy has been up for debate ever since TPM, and will likely continue for quite a long time yet…
Is the idea that the Dark Side is an actual entity that can be destroyed? I don't see it that way. There is just the force as in the power that people can use and the way they choose to use it is what defines the light side and the dark side. But in some ways it seems to be very black and white in that if you use the "dark side" it is very hard to come back to being a good person or "light sider". So as long as people using the force actually have emotions and aren't just robots there always has to be a dark side presence presumably. And of course this will be a factor in the new films or there will be no baddie and no story to speak of unless it is just "good" jedi fighting non force users. I don't think anybody wants or expects to see that.
I don't really understand what the problem is with the dark side "returning" (as if it can ever really go away) and Anakin having fulfilled the prophecy at the same time.
Now I've never read this prophecy myself, but I'm pretty sure it didn't say "...and after The Chosen One destroys the Sith and bring balance to the force, the galaxy shall enjoy an eternity filled with sunshine and rainbows."
So he brought balance to the force. Wonderful. But does this mean that all evil was destroyed? This has been discussed ad nauseam. You can't destroy evil or the Sith. You can't prevent someone from dabbling into the dark side, much like in our universe you can't win a "war on drugs" or a "war on terror".
Will we see perhaps a new incarnation or twist on what it means to be "dark" or "light"? I suppose, but I would bet the farm on both the Sith and Dark Side as having a big something to do with whatever bad is going on in the galaxy 30 years after the Chosen One fulfilled the prophecy.
How about we find out who wrote this damn thing and why?
It can't be destroyed as it is an integral element of the Force. We might use the analogy of a critical component in a machine, without which the machine does not work.
It is telling that the characters never speak of destroying the dark side, because such is not their goal.
Maybe the ST will surprise us and reveal that the dark side can be destroyed.