Do you/will you smack your child?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jedi_Jimbo, Sep 19, 2005.

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  1. crazybirdman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
    Well you can't really take anything away from a toddler can you. Just like spanking won't be most effective on a teen, taking the XBOX from a 3 year old would be pointless.
  2. Cheveyo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 5
    Well you can't really take anything away from a toddler can you. Just like spanking won't be most effective on a teen, taking the XBOX from a 3 year old would be pointless.

    If a 3-yr-old has an X-box, the parents should be disciplined, actually. Given the above statement, though, I suggest only that you look to toddlers and see what their daily life involves, then try to tell me that taking something away (including play time in the form of time outs) from a toddler is pointless.

    Not to mention that when you hit a toddler, you run a greater rsik of actually injuring them. Every hear of Shaken-baby syndrome? It's not just for babies. look it up.

  3. BenduHopkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    I never needed to be hit. I was a good boy. I was yelled at sometimes, and that was traumatic enough. I won't hit my little one. I've got one coming. If the kid turns out bad, it isn't because I didn't hit him. You can discipline without violence.
  4. jediknightruthie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 4
    Thank you. That's exactly what I was trying to get at. Discipline does not always have to be physical. I do not care if everyone else does not respect me because of my age, but I do ask that I will opinion be regarded.
  5. large_mammal Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2003
    star 1
    Do you have kids, diz?


    Yes, yes, blah blah blah, I'll know better when I have kids, etc etc. People have been telling me "Oh, you'll know better when you're older" all my freaking life, and now I'm 30 and really quite frankly I've been vindicated in my beliefs more and more.

    Diz - Not having children doesn't invalidate your opinion. But I personally feel that you are not in any way equipped (with anything other than book knowledge) to be condemning people - who actually have children - of giving them a swat on the behind.
    All I can say to you is: Blah blah blah - It has nothing to do with being older. I can only hope you'll know better when you have kids.

    Plus, of course, I was a kid once and I know how my upbringing affected me, and I know other people who were also kids once and I see how their upbringings affected them. And there's, you know, science.

    So you're saying when you were a child you were spanked and you didn't like it?
    No kidding?!
    I think we just had a breakthrough.
    If you enjoyed being spanked it wouldn't have been much of a punishment, would it?
    And - more to the point - how exactly did it negatively affect you?
    Do you fight a daily urge to climb clocktowers and pick off fellow citizens with a rifle? Do you see random children on the street and feel an undeniable compulsion to beat them? You're gonna have to elaborate.
    And since your all hip to the whole "science" and "research" angle on this subject. (Although I personally believe there are too many variables taken into consideration to ever do a "difinitive" study.) You should visit: you can find some interesting arguments/examples on both sides of the issue.

    I've heard the use of spanking here as the end-all means of quickly and ascertively changing child behavior. The simple fact is that this doesn't happen....
    Raising a child is more than a series of single actions and disciplines. It is a slow, arduous, occassionally mind-numbingly frustrating continuous process.

    Chev - This is where I agree with you one hundred percent. You cannot use spanking as your only means of discipline. Nor can you rely solely on "reasoning" with them. What good does it do to spank a child if you're not going to explain to them why they are being spanked. On the other hand, what good does it do to "reason" with your child if they know the only repercussion for their actions is a lecture about life lessons? My son is now 6 and I haven't felt it necessary to spank him, for any reason, in quite some time. He's reached an age where the threat of a spanking does the job quite nicely.

    I 'd like to go back to your ice cream truck argument for a moment. When a child hears the sound of the ice cream truck outside he/she makes the connection that jingly music = getting a tasty treat. Just as when children who are raised with spankings know "Do you need a spanking?" = what I'm doing is wrong and if I don't stop now there will be consequences for my actions.

    If words are not followed by actions they were meaningless to begin with. That's why those who advocate non-violence will always lose. It's a harsh reality.
    It's a reality that I'm not happy with, but have learned to live with and accept.
    Might does not make right - but it does make your point.
    As far as I'm concerned everything else is unrealistic "buy the world a coke and a hug" propaganda from people who'd be the first go in any real-life situation of natural selection.
  6. Silver_mane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    If I ever have kids, Ill apply the good old spanking on the rearend, just like my mom/dad did when I was being out of line. Besides, usually if my parents threated a butt spanking, Id get my act together quick unlike my brother.....

    I think the last time they ever had to spank me was when I was 9 or so, after that I learned how to be a decent wellmannered kid.
  7. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Here's what happens when you don't smack a kid that calls for it and people are over-concerned about looking for "abuse."

  8. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    Not necessarily working up. It's a mix bag. I intend to use both tactics; both corporal punishment and 'taking away' things, both at an early age. I'm simply going to reduce beatings as the child grows older. It's effective because it teaches a child to respect their elders while at the same time teaching them basic moral values. How do I know it does this? From personal experiences and the experiences of others around me. If it's done right, it works. That's all I have to say about that. Too many children have no respect for authority, and it's certainly not because of corporal punishment, but perhaps... the lack of it.

    I don't see spanking as violent, by the way. I also don't necessairly mean that I'll hit my kid whenever they do bad. I'm going to mix it up, if you understand. I agree that teaching a child basic moral values is not necessarily the product of corporal punishment, rather it is a mix of both, in my opinion. I think that various forms of disciplines must be used to fully make a child grow in absolute value.

    As others have said, if you just beat a kid, what does that teach em? They have to know what they have done wrong, and they have to know their errors. Before and after a spanking, I will always let them know that I do not like spanking them (because I don't). I will always be calm when I spank them as that is not abuse. If they know that you love them and care for them, they will respect their parents. It may not work for everyone, but it has worked very well on me, and it seems that it has worked on many sensible persons I know rather well.

    If I've missed any points, please let me know...
  9. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Jesus, Chev, talk about disproportionate! What, you think that parents get a run up when giving their child an uppercut? How can a smack on the bum lead to shaken baby syndrome? Or we you just playing the emotional-knee-jerk-reaction card?

  10. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Well, spanking wasn't the only answer. Both boys should be made to discuss their feelings with each other, after a parent explains that the fabric upon which society is based does not condone acts of violence as it would destabilise civilisation as we know it. After the kids feel better knowing that their acts could ruin the Western way of life as we know it, they should feel open to discussing their feelings and then shake hands and paint a picture together.

    Chev, is this not just the reverse of waht you're saying, with ES sarcasm added?

  11. Loopster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 4
    Now hang on a minute. A six year old kid had a pacifier???

  12. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    According to the National Center on Shaken Baby Syndrome, the proper term for SBS is "abusive head trauma" (look under "Medical Facts").

    Are you claiming that spanking is the same as "abusive head trauma", or that spanking causes "abusive head trauma"? Last I checked, they involved parts at opposite ends of the body.

    Kimball Kinnison
  13. Vezner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 5
    No message. I'm too tired and my humor is way off tonight. I reread my post and thought... :eek:.

  14. Darth_Underwear Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 3
    Thanks Bacon for pointing me here.

    I give you the OPEN forum version of a post in another (more civilized) forum.

    When I grew up we didn't have ritalin we had paddlin. The effect was about the same. Yea, lets Drug the kids so they will behave. That's better.

    Myself, very limited doses at the appropriate time. Never in anger.

    Crime must have punishment. But measured to the crime.

    Some times the threat is worse than the act.

    My girls were giving the sitter a real bad time. So bad I had to come home.

    The punishment was to place a penny on their foreheads and hold it to the wall for five minutes with their hands behind their backs. The threat was if the penny hit the floor my belt would hit their bottoms. (of course slapping the belt on the counter for added effect).

    (Funny thing is it didn't take them long to figure out that the penny would stick to their heads.)

    They were as good as gold for the sitter from then on.

    Never had to do much spanking. But if they know it is a real punishment you don't have to.

    Never threaten you kids with a punishment that they know you will not follow through with. They respect consistancy in correction.

    If you say it, mean it.

    Raising kids and fighting crime have so much in common.

    There are problems with the legal system in the US.

    It has nothing to do with Law Enforcement or the Judiciary (Parents).

    It has to do with Lawyers and Politicians (misguided liberal intent on raising your children, usually don't have any children).

    Fairness and consistancy, that's the key.

    Criminals are like children, they always test to see how much they can get away with.

    If your kid had a Lawyer or Politican backing them, could you ever get them to do the Right thing? (again directed at liberals, not being vindictive but ment in a facisias proding kind of way).

    I grew up in a different Era.

    Parents today are in fear of not being Politically Correct. You don't want someone to question your actions. Even though everyone has their own opinions as to how to raise children.

    Slap a kids hand in a grocery store as they were about to take down most of Isle 12 after repeated warnings. You could end up at a DHS office if the wrong person (usually someone without children) sees you.

    An appropriate level of discipline at the appropriate time with the appropriate temperment is....appropriate.

    Hit a kid in the face, cause bruses, break skin or bones. That is abuse.

    A red mark on the tush once in a great while when necessary. That's discipline.

    You will find that after that you usually get an I'm sorry :( and a hug [:D]
    from them.

    I sit in wonder as the Media admonishes parents after their kids killed 15 people at Colombine and yet we have a society that wants to Drug our kids instead of discipline them. If the parents are truly responsable for raising law abiding children then they should at an appropriate level be allowed to discipline them as THEY SEE FIT as long as they do it at an appropriate level.

    The simple differance of a liberal vs a conservative is that a liberal wants to tell eveyone how they should do everything so as not to offend anyone. A conservative believes that the individual has a Right to make their choices and the Responsability to others to do what they think is correct.

    Has anyone ever heard about personal responsabilities.

    If you do something wrong, you will get punished by society or your parents.

    Political correctness will kill this country.

    Watch what you say, watch what you do. Or the P.C. Police will get you.

    Sounds like the KGB.

    I, for one will fight for a parents right to raise their kids.

    If you want society to raise them then don't come back on me when they go bad.



    Parent to four well adjusted and well behaved, happy children with bright futures.

    None are on Drugs, Perscribed or not.

    All of whom at one point were spanked.

    And yet they still didn't SUE me or turn me in
  15. Vezner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 5

    That's the biggest post of sound bites I've ever seen! :eek: :p

    BTW, I agree with nearly everything you said.
  16. Underpaid_Soldier Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 3
    I support corporal punishment, however, each child is a different case. My older brother was rarely spanked, all he needed was a good "time-out" most of the time. Unfortunately for my parents, my younger brother and I, weren't the same way. If I have kids, I will spank them if necessary. Children learn fast and can become smart, but I will still not treat a 6 year-old the same way I would treat an adult, completely ruling out the possibility of physical discipline.

    Those who stated that spanking is not an effective tool, I'm living proof that it is effective. Once you have kids, your perception will change. Even the most "saintly" of children will need at least one spanking in their lifetime.
  17. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    This is just a general rule in buying into something, and I mean no disrespect to anyone. But anecdotal evidence is something that cannot be trusted. Pretty much for the same reason you wouldn't buy cheese that's been picked up off of the floor. Sure they say it tastes good, but you still shouldn't listen to those people.

    Simple way to treat this: Everyone is different and what works for some might not work for others. I don't think smacking children is right or anything, but 'eh...I can't really do much to change that situation either.
  18. DarthDogbert Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 2
    I wouldn't say "lesser" disciplines. Just more "age-appropriate". Spanking a teenager just wouldn't be effective in my eyes because even the minimal pain level to produce compliance would be far greater than what I would be willing to give out. Whereas with a small child it would be far less.

    Hopefully, though, if I've done my job consistently and lovingly, my girls will outgrow spanking because it is no longer needed long before they would have outgrown it physically.

    Oh, and just as others have said, it's not that I'm going to use spanking alone at first. Spankings will always be accompanied by an explanation of the crime and the punishment. I guess I just figured that was understood as I already am explaining everyday things to my girls even though they can't understand me.
  19. Darth_Underwear Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 3
    Vezner said.

    "That's the biggest post of sound bites I've ever seen! :eek::p

    BTW, I agree with nearly everything you said."



    ROFLMAO, so you caught me.

    I'm all about sound bites to make a point.

    I tend to editorialze with common referances that we all grew up with to cut to the chase and give my opinion thru sound bites.

    Sincerely the guy who makes his points with Sound Bites.

    Dark Lord of the Skivies.
  20. General Cargin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 1999
    star 4
    All I can contribute to this discussion is my personal experience - both of receiving and handingg out corporal punishment.My sisters and I were spanked as children, and all three of us turned out stable, well-adjusted humans (my elder sister may be a debatable point, but that's irrelevant to the discussion). I don't yet have children of my own, but I do have a niece who has on more than one occasion been spanked across the hand accompanied by a firm "No!". The spank has never been more than one short stroke of the hand (due to her age and size, it was more like two fingers) across the back of her hand, and I can assure you it never had to be repeated for any one act of mischief. A repeat act earned a strong "no" which was always followed a sulk. With this particular method, she has become one of the most well behaved children of her age-group at day-care.

    I have two lots of cousins, both of whose parents subscribed to the methods espoused by Cheveyo. One set of cousins grew up holy terrors - one even ran away from home and lived through a cycle of teen drug use and prostitution before being helped out of it by her now-husband. The other set of cousins are angels compared to the first set. Based on my experiences, I can only conclude that both avenues can work, and both avenues can fail miserably. Personally, when I get to the point of having children of my own, I'm inclined to be a parent who spanks. But that ultimately is a decision that has to be agreed upon by both parents, because I firmly believe that no matter the method used, consistency in application and following through on promises is absolutely essential.
  21. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I just want to mention that I was spanked as a child, and I'm one strange individual (a point to which many of the regulars here can probably attest).

    I wonder if I'm a liberal because I was screwed up by being spanked?
    Maybe I support homosexuals because my spanking led to some strange obsession with the butt.

    But seriously, is it weird that I'm against capital punishment, in favor of euthanasia rights, and in favor of parental corporal punishment (to a degree)?

    The big problem with this issue is that everyone wants to take an all-or-nothing stance. I'm not convinced that the no-hitting-period choice is necessarily wrong, but I know that the letting-parents-do-whatever-they-want is NOT a good option.

    I understand the point of the "conservatives" here, that the government does try too hard to manage families. But you all have to understand the government's point that if abuse is going on and they do nothing to stop or prevent it, that's WORSE.

    Raising children is something that defines the word subjectivity. What works on your child won't necessarily work on another's, and what doesn't work on your child very well COULD work on someone else's. Then, of course, everyone's notion of what is a good job raising your child is different. If your kid grows up to be liberal/Christian/atheist/republican/gay/whatever, you may use that as an indication that you've done a bad job raising your child.

    The government is not in the business of raising kids. It's in the business of PROTECTING them. And corporal punishment throws a big monkey wrench into the idea of setting standards for what defines child abuse. Is what the government does perfect? No. But I'd much rather see a good parent have to find an alternative form of discipline than see a child come to school with bruises every day because someone decided it's not the government's place to interfere.

    So to answer the question of the thread: maybe.
  22. Admiral_Chiss Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2005
    star 2
    nothing like a good old timeout....


  23. plo_koom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 5
    My mom rarely hit me out of disciplinary issues, it was normally out of anger and she just couldn't control herself. My dad tended to hit me more formally and rarely and less out of rage and more out of reinforcement which is what I think made all the difference.
  24. darkcide Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    Some parents get carried away with "smacking". They don't know their limits. What starts out as a light smack on the butt can gradually escalate to more serious hitting. Then the child starts to believe that whoever hits hardest always wins.
  25. Viceroy_NuteGunray Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2005
    star 4
    If I had kids and they behaved badly, I would smack them but only as a last resort if firm talking or any other disiplinary proceedings don't work.
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