Amph Doctor Who Discussion (Now Discussing Peter Capaldi)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Guy, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. soitscometothis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2003
    star 5
    If you don't want to put iTunes on your PC, I don't blame you - I've just done it, and it's a bloated, greedy piece of spyware. If you don't want to pay for a download now and are content to wait for the DVD's, I don't blame you - I much prefer DVD's over downloads, especially ones with restrictive DRMs, and will probably wait for Enemy on DVD. But don't come on here with a self-righteous rant about how your grandparents paid ten bob in the Sixties so you and your descendants are entitled to see Web and Enemy for free and therefore it's okay for you to acquire it illegally - that's crap.

    The guy who found the missing episodes spent years tracking them down all around the world out of his own pocket. The BBC and partners have spent years (I think) in negotiations with him to get these stories back, and I don't know how much money changed hands for that to happen, but I know negotiations have not been easy, and I know that each episode had to be extensively and expensively restored, and that wasn't paid for by your ancestors. I believe that the finder of the episodes has a whole bunch more, but aside from Marco Polo (which I believe, despite official word to the contrary, will make a reappearance sometime next year perhaps), I think whether the Beeb stumps up the money to get any more back will probably depend on how these newly found episodes sell. So Classic Who fans get pretty touchy when someone starts boasting about illegally downloading them on the day they're released. Buy or don't buy, but you don't have a right to this stuff for free.
  2. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    One like is not enough
  3. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I'm thinking Youtube will have it at some point anyway. I do think though that the BBC should show more Classic Who on TV because it's good and they have lots of it.
    They seem happy to do endless repeats of Dad's Army and Only Fools & Horses and many other shows but they don't show old Who stuff. The last time any Classic Who came on was after Elizabeth Sladen died and they did a couple of her episodes with Tom Baker. Prior to that I only remember it when Doctor Who Night was done in 1999 followed by a run of Pertwee & Baker stuff for a few months after.
    I don't think they've even shown the McGann TV movie since then

    Which is why we pay the BBC a subscription every year, so they can make and distribute such shows for those who funded them.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Oct 11, 2013
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  4. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    @soitscometothis
    License fee = tax. BBC archive = state asset. Doctor Who restoration team earn wages paid for by the state broadcaster. Self righteous rant? Well maybe, but am I insulting anyone's ancestors? :D

    I thought the man in the video taking credit for the find was a BBC employee, and finding lost/deleted content is part of his job description. I may be misinformed, obviously, but that's what he said. The content within those reels is still BBC property, I think it's odd if he, or any BBC subsidiary company, should hold the BBC to ransom for the return of their (our) own intellectual copyright.

    If you've ever lent or borrowed, shown or been shown a recording or backup with a friend, if you've ever remembered copyrighted material (songs, prose, dialogue, dance moves, knitting patterns, etc) and reproduced them without permission, or if you've ever used a picture without permission (such as an avatar or a photoshop joke), you don't get to make a self righteous anti-piracy rant without being accused of some measure of hypocrisy. :p

    I'm a DW fan (contrary to what your tone implies!) who wants to complete his DVD collection. I'm going to buy these stories and when I do, I'm allowed to make backups. IF I were to illegally download copies of these episodes, I'd just be getting the backup before the hard copy. How that could result in a loss of revenue is only clear to copyright lawyers, as far as I can tell.

    If it weren't for various pirate streaming channels a decade or so ago, I'd not have got back into DW and consequently bought every single DVD. Same goes for so much music and so many films and tv shows that fill up my house. If it weren't for shoutcasters back in the day, we'd have no iPlayer. And if it weren't for despicable pirates like Loose Cannon, we'd not have any reconstructions of lost stories. Without the wanton acts of piracy and copyright theft committed by criminal pirate scum like Paul Cornell, Bill Baggs and Nick Briggs, we'd have no New Adventures, no BF audios... Without cultural information being disseminated, the world would be an intensely dull, uncreative and insular place.

    How's THAT for a self righteous rant, eh? You need to up your game. :p
  5. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    And it was. Back in the 1960s when it was made. Just because they've been rediscovered, it's ridiculous to state they should be made free-to-air. This hasn't been the case with Who (and countless other shows) for decades. Why should this be different? They make the show, they broadcast it for free, then sell it. Simple as. Just happens that they are selling it a bit longer after the original broadcast date than usual.
    Last edited by halibut, Oct 11, 2013
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  6. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    There wasn't this hoo-hah a couple of weeks back when Terror of the Zygons was finally released on DVD for the first time and you had to pay to watch it again. Sorry for the repetition, but it bugs me when we get some great news, then people choose to complain about an issue which is completely normal and irrelevant.

    I've just finished William Hartnell, and I'm delighted that there are 2 more Troughtons for me to look forward to. More Doctor Who episodes, More DVDs, More documentaries. This is excellent news, and we should be rejoicing, not moaning about paying a tenner.
  7. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    When old black and white episodes of Dad's Army were found a few years back the BBC aired all of them, no reason it shouldn't do the same with Doctor Who.


    And no-one these days should get uppity about piracy given how many people get hold of movies and music without paying (recording from the TV or radio is the same thing and that's legal). Doctor Who is not some special more sacred thing than any other TV show ever made. They can sell all the DVDs they want, but it would be nice if they aired stuff that hasn't been on TV for 40+ years since they repeat plenty of other shows endlessly that aren't even as good.
    V-2 likes this.
  8. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    @halibut
    I take your point about shows being sold on DVD (and I guess selling the ethereal version isn't much different), but it's not as simple as you make out. No BBC TV shows were ever aired for free. If you watch them without paying you could be fined or, in theory, given a custodial sentence!

    Sales and licensing revenue should, in theory, go straight back into the production/acquisition of new content. The BBC is a state owned broadcaster, meaning the state (the people) own it. I know the tories have messed with it over the years, cutting parts off and semi privatising this and that (all for Rupert Murdoch's benefit), but we do expect material that was commissioned and broadcast at public expense to remain in public hands, and the appropriate response for a state broadcaster on rediscovering lost content would seem self explanatory.
  9. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    I can understand being disappointed that they're not airing the material in question, but don't act like stealing it is some kind of holier-than-thou position of official condemnation. You don't want to play by the exact rules prescribed by the BBC, so you're stealing it; fine, whatever, your prerogative, let him who is without sin cast the first stone, I doubt anyone here is completely innocent, yadda yadda, but stop pretending you're media Robin Hood.
  10. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8

    Yes, it would be nice. But the BBC is a business. And your argument is full of opinion rather than fact or nous ("that aren't as good" for example). There's a VERY good reason why they won't do the same with Who as they will with Dad's Army which is money. And fair play to them. You only need to read the news coverage to see exactly why this is a MUCH bigger deal than finding episodes of Dad's Army. I would suggest that Who is indeed a sacred thing for the BBC. It's a pioneering flagship show that has broken records right across the board, and continues to do so. (Admittedly this is an opinion)

    And if we are being finicky about the law, yes you can record programmes but legally you are only allowed to keep them for a year.
    Last edited by halibut, Oct 11, 2013
  11. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8

    Not entirely sure of your point here. Are you addressing whether the lost episodes should be re-aired, or whether the BBC should have to pay to recover their intellectual property?
  12. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    But to correct another point, you cannot be jailed for not having a TV Licence. You can only be fined, though you can be jailed for not paying the fine. A different offence
  13. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    The Licence Fee will always be a controversial thing. After all there are those who (supposedly) don't watch the BBC yet still have to pay. No-one makes you pay for Sky.

    I guess the whole recording thing may play a part. If the BBC do air the episodes and lots of people simply record them to watch again they won't buy a DVD or download which is what they want. It's similar to Sky's tactic of buying up the broadcast rights to as much stuff as they can (cricket, James Bond etc) so the only way to see it other than DVD is to pay for Sky.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Oct 11, 2013
  14. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Licence fee is completely and totally irrelevant in this discussion. You pay for the output for that year, and that year alone. As a licence payer this year, you don't have a right to any future releases of season 4 of Downton Abbey for example. To use the fee as justification for being able to watch these newly re-discovered episodes is a complete strawman.

    And it's NOTHING like Sky's 'tactic' at all
    Last edited by halibut, Oct 11, 2013
  15. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I didn't realise I'd started!

    It doesn't seem that way.
    Last edited by V-2, Oct 11, 2013
  16. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    It doesn't seem like that to those that think that because they pay the licence fee, they have a divine right to watch any BBC show anytime they like, no.
  17. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Well I'm glad you're here to make stupid arguments for us, Halibut. ::)
  18. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
  19. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
  20. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I wish Marvin was in Dr. Who. Then I would totes watch it 69 times a day.
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  21. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Not THAT Marvin I hope

    [IMG]

    That's better.


    And it's NOT "Dr. Who"
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  22. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    I liked the original Hitchhiker's Guide, but I think Rickman was perfect.
    Rew likes this.
  23. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Stephen Moore FTW. It was a Radio Drama before a book, and he played him in both the radio drama and the TV show. He is Marvin
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  24. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I just came across a picture of the new companion for the next season of Surgeon General Who:
    Show Spoiler
    [IMG]
  25. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5

    Ok.