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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph Doctor Who Discussion (Russell T. Davies returns)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Guy, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Saga/Music/Fun & Games Mod star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2014
    Caught up with the last couple of episodes, I've mostly enjoyed this season - prob Capaldi's most consistent - and really liked the new one a lot.
    I didn't realize we were down to the final couple of episodes and didn't know John Simm was going to be in this one so the reveal at the end was a nice surprise for me (I only figured it out like right before because I knew he was in this season). I like Bill as a companion a lot, but I'd love to see the show do something bold and have her be stuck as a Cyberman. I feel like the Doctor really screwed up here and there should be some consequences from that - but I really doubt that happens. Still a pretty dark thing to happen to poor Bill.
    Looking forward to the finale this weekend.
     
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  2. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    I think they may have written themselves into a corner here.

    If they cure Bill without any aftereffects, it looks like yet another magical fix that the show has used many times before. If she's stays Converted and destroys herself, it looks like a retread of Danny's fate. If she stays Converted with no hope, it's a revisit of Donna's fate, where a well-liked Companion suffers a cruel fate, making the Doctor look like even more of an idiot than he already does.

    As for the Master & Missy, if they manage to escape, the Doctor looks powerless and useless, and it's even worse if he lets them get away because, "If I kill them, I'll be like them", or some such thing. If, however, they suffer some real consequences, the next team will have to come up with a way to resurrect them that won't make the previous story look like an exercise in futility.

    Now, I think there are a couple of ways they could work around this, but it's still a big problem. The more they raise the stakes in each successive cliffhanger, the more likely it is that the resolution won't measure up.

    But, again, I could be wrong...
     
  3. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    This has been my favorite season of Twelve and I've enjoyed all of his seasons so far. I found this last episode a great setup to hopefully a powerful finale. About that first scene though...

    To me it looks like Twelve is trying to stop his regeneration. Perhaps it's an attempt to kill himself. That's pretty dark but maybe losing Bill combined with Missy betraying him again (which I think is probably likely) will push him over the edge. If that's the case then I suspect the Christmas Special will be a sort of redemption story for Twelve where he decides he must carry on. I mean as much as I'd love to find out who the next Doctor is next week I just don't see how they could have filmed that scene already and not have the name leak. It also makes sense with Capaldi being in the Christmas Special.
     
  4. Chewgumma

    Chewgumma Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2009

    That scene was filmed only two weeks ago, so it's possible that only a a small circle of people have access to the conclusion. However...

    I hear that the Christmas special is Doctor Who meets It's A Wonderful Life, where the first Doctor and a future Doctor team up to convince 12 to keep going, which sounds plausible given that Moffat likes putting his spin on other stories for the Christmas specials.

    This is backed up by the fact that David Bradley has been in Cardiff for the past few weeks, and that Moffat said that, at the live Q&A after the last episode aired, the final episode hasn't been finished yet and that they're working through the week to complete it.
     
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  5. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    His regeneration appears to be a brilliant set up. After an exhausting battle with the Mondasian Cybermen, the First Doctor went inside the Tardis to regenerate because it was too cold outside in the snow. His last words to his companions were for them to stay warm. 12 seems to be exiting the Tardis into (presumably) the same snow in order to go through with it. I would not be shocked if their 2 Tardises were not there at roughly the same time in Moffatt's thinking. 12 regenerates and his Tardis vanishes just as the First's begins materializing to begin his trip to Mondas in the Tenth Planet.
     
  6. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    That would be one Moffat crazy timey-wimeyism I would enjoy! :p
     
  7. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    Lest we forget...

    [​IMG]

    ...Milton Subotsky, co-founder of Amicus Films, and screenwriter & co-producer of the Peter Cushing "Dr. Who" movies.
     
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  8. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I thought "Heaven Sent" was one of the best episodes NuWho has done, but... not so much the conclusion. While I didn't think this last episode was nearly as good as "Heaven Sent," I'm still prepared for yet another disappointing conclusion.
     
  9. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    And Happy Birthday to...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I'm keeping my fingers crossed because I felt the same way about Heaven Sent. Great setup to bring Gallifrey back into the show and then they do absolutely nothing with it. Sadly that wasn't even the worst thing about the episode. :p
     
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  11. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    "Look, Doctor. Teacher says, every time a bell rings, a Time Lord gets his TARDIS."

    "Where's that money, you silly stupid old fool? Where's that money? Do you realize what this means? It means bankruptcy and scandal and prison! That's what it means! One of us is going to jail, Nardole; well, it's not gonna be me!"
     
  12. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    [face_waiting] Sound was totally messed up for the last two minutes of the show.
     
  13. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, Moffat's now two for two - he wrecked Sherlock and he's ran Who into the ground too. (True, the Xmas special might mitigate some of the damage but even so.)

    So, spoilers:

    I liked how they undid Bill being a Cyberman, the way her story ended was OK, the bigger loss is that of the dynamic between her and the Doctor. It worked really well and now it's gone.

    The Missy - Master relationship didn't do much for me. They did pay off where they were heading with Missy, but in the most functional way. Gomez and Simm were wasted here.

    What really irritates about all this is those 10 eps of S10 before this finale duo were a lot of fun, they had a lot going for them and now it's all swept away.

    Don't want to click on the spoilers? Short version then - didn't like it.

    EDIT: As it apparently wasn't clear enough, obviously the above is just my take on it.
     
  14. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    In other words, the show is "ran into the ground" ow because it's the
    end of Mackie and Capaldi,( and Moffat too) which was known before the season started,
    and two of things in this episode worked but did didn't work enough for you.
     
  15. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    I actually thought that was a very decent series finale.
     
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  16. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I think the problem, for me, is if you had asked people what they expected from S9, I don't think anyone would have said the Mackie-Doctor relationship. So, at the start, when they said this season would just be it, I think the general consensus would have been: Fine.

    Now it's 12 eps later and that element was one of the best things about this series and it can't be kept, it's a damn shame. So, those aspects do look very different now.

    And yeah, I could see what they were going for but it just didn't nail it. Any other ep, this'd probably be fine, but these were concluding ones - it's hard for it not to undermine all that came before. I enjoyed those eps, will I watch them again now I know where it's all heading? Probably not. (Of course, if you liked this, it'll have the opposite effect.)

    Would be interested in what made it work far better for others.
     
  17. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Excellent finale - finally, Moffat writes a decent Part II!

    Meanwhile, we had Sim's best portrayal of the Master yet.
     
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  18. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Really great episode tonight! Possibly my favorite Capaldi performance. Some thoughts:

    -So I guess the Master is dead but I get the feeling now that Simm's Master isn't the one who regenerated into Missy
    -Disappointed we didn't get at least a glimpse of 13 but I figured that was gonna happen
    -Huge hint that 13 is going to be female though but it could be Moffat throwing out a red herring
    -Glad that Bill was saved even though it was pretty much exactly like Clara
    -Made me realize how much I miss Simm as the Master, "The Doctor's dead. He told me he always hated you. Let's go." [face_laugh]
    -David Bradley as the First Doctor was perfection
     
  19. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    I think Capaldi has broken the "final season" curse by having his final series as his finest. I absolutely cannot say the same about Smith, Tennant almost had his best with S4 but I prefer S3 while Eccleston obviously cannot be used as a comparison.
     
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  20. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Yeah, I really thought that Moffat stuck the landing for once, other than the Master / Missy bit falling a bit flat. I'm looking forward to the Christmas special as I'm now incredibly curious if...
    They're going to A Christmas Carol The Doctor -- the Ghost of Christmas Past [One], the Ghost of Christmas Present [Twelve], and the Ghost of Christmas Future whomever it will be...
     
  21. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Welp, this Christmas special is going to be amazing.
     
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  22. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Those Cybermen on the crosses in the opening were definitely the creepiest use of the Cybermen ever. Just a terrifying image.
     
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  23. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    wow really loved this finale. The Pilot was a bit of a deus ex machina so meh, but I liked what it accomplished so slightly positive meh on that note

    HOLY **** GUYS THAT LAST SCENE THAT PERFORMER DID AN AMAZING JOB, CAN'T WAIT FOR CHRISTMAS

    Capaldi, man. What a performance. I should give major props to Pearl Mackie, John Simm and Michelle Gomez but yeah....Capaldi just proved what an incredible actor can bring to this role. Probably gonna be tears at Christmas after rewatching this 2 parter.
     
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  24. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Well, I wouldn't have expected an appearance from the First Doctor if I hadn't accidentally read about it, lol. Same with the John Simm Master.

    That was actually a pretty good episode. While the Pilot wasn't technically a deus ex machina, I don't like that it's basically Clara's exit again. I'm also wondering why Twelve is reluctant to regenerate to the point that he'd rather just die instead. Seemingly failing to reform Missy plus what happened to Bill (and Clara) robbed him of the will to live?
     
  25. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    Just saw the repeat of "The Doctor Falls". It was better than I expected...to an extent. I haven't read the other spoilered comments yet, but I swear to you on my absolute word of honor...
    ...I figured the girl from "The Pilot" would cure Bill of her Cyberconversion. The set-up was there, and I thought they had to throw in yet another God-like stroke of plot to resolve the situation. At least this one was actually somewhat touching, rather than the blatant backdoor pilot that "Hell Bent" was.
    I thought there were good touches, like Bill appearing as herself, until we have to see her as a Cyberbeing. And the visual quality of the direction was well-done. And that last scene was good, even though I knew what was coming, sort of. At least the Doctor just wants it to end, rather than just wanting to selfishly stay as his current self.

    Still, we're still left with no true resolution for the predicament of Nardole and the kids (why is it always kids?). And, of course, the Master and/or Missy will be back; that whole thing was sure to be inconclusive and vague. The new production team has just been left with the job of coming up with a solution. And then there's the blatant re-use of the Companion flashback device.

    I guess I'm saying it wasn't the utter rip-off that "Hell Bent" or several of the Part Two resolutions of the NuWho have been. It was OK, but not the best I've seen. I'll keep an open mind on how this'll be dealt with this Christmas.