PT Does anakin's chosen one prophecy make sense?

"It's not that they can't see the dark side coming, it's just that the dark side begins to envelop everything. It's like walking into a fog. The Jedi's ability to see lessens as the dark side grows."

--George Lucas, Starlog Magazine Interview

So it is the dark side growing stronger as Yoda says. It isn't metaphorical. It is growing stronger and everywhere and this is what weakens the Jedi's powers. This comes from the earlier drafts of ANH.

BIGGS: "Why didn’t the “FORCE OF OTHERS” help the Jedi to put things right?"

LUKE: "Because a terrible thing happened. During one of his lessons a young PADAWAN-JEDI, a boy named Darklighter, came to know the evil half of the force, and fell victim to the spell of the dreaded Bogan. He ran away from his instructor and taught the evil ways of the Bogan Force to a clan of Sith pirates, who then spread untold misery throughout the systems. They became the personal bodyguards of the Emperor. The Jedi were hunted down by these deadly Sith knights. With every Jedi death, contact with the Ashla grows weaker, and the force of the Bogan grows more powerful."

Second draft of ANH.


46. INT. ALDERAAN – CRYSTAL CHAMBER Three SITH LORDS are on their knees praying before a shining crystal placed on a tall altar. They mumble a strange electronic chant.

1ST SITH: "Darth, did you feel that?"

Darth stands and stares at the crystal.

2ND SITH: "Was it an omen? What is it?"

VADER: "Something old has been awakened. The Force has suddenly grown stronger. We must travel future paths with caution."

Third draft of ANH.

Actually, it is what Calamari said. Anakin was brought there to replace the Father, but that was not his destiny. His destiny was to do what we see in ROTJ and we see that play out during the Mortis Arc. The Father realizes that the only way to stop the Son is to sacrifice himself, which causes the Son to break free of the dark side before he is killed by Anakin. Luke offers up his life in refusing to turn and to spare his own father, but this causes Anakin to kill Palpatine and then he dies himself. Watch the final minutes of "Ghosts Of Mortis" and then watch the final confrontation between Luke, Vader and Palpatine.

"The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil."

--George Lucas, quoted by L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars."

--George Lucas, Time Magazine Article 2002.

So yes, there is a tension that needs to be there. They have to be in direct opposition and when someone strong in the Force tries to blur the lines between good and evil, then the Force is out of balance.

Not really. Yoda says that the dark side is growing stronger and the Jedi are growing weaker. Obi-wan says that Anakin will bring balance by destroying the Sith which he does in ROTJ.

 

So it starts of like a mist, then as it gets stronger it gets thicker turning into fog, making things more difficult to see, I get it. But the growing Darkside surely has to be down to the deaths of the Jedi? IIRC Mace states in ROTS that "the dark side of the force surrounds the chancellor", which says to me he pretty much knows who the Sith lord is at that point, or he certainly has an idea of who. It also makes the Jedi look pretty stupid, because for years the vision has been clear and then all of a sudden in TPM the dark side is clouding there vision, a Jedi Master has just encountered what he believed was a Sith lord, and the Jedi are still running around saying "No they couldn't have returned without us knowing".

Unless of course it starts off as half and half (So one side of the fog is light and the other is dark), maybe that's why they didn't sense anything, maybe they thought the shift was because of the numbers off Jedi dying was causing the growing darkness and not the strength of the dark side and the Sith. That's an interesting thought.

 

In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of the Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that the Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine Interview, 1999.

The Force has been slowly going out of balance and is not just an out of the blue moment. It has been going on for a while, but the Jedi are not really aware of it. Yoda suspects something is wrong which is why he voices that the dark side can be difficult to see, which is relation to the Sith's survival. The Jedi think, incorrectly that the Sith have only recently returned. But in fact, they've always been around. Darth Bane survived and he passed on his knowledge down the line to Darth Plagueis who taught Darth Sidious. In recent years, the balance has started to slip. But the Jedi have no clue as to how bad until they realize that not only did they not know that the Sith were still around, but that other events were happening that they couldn't once prevent. Like the birth of the Clone Army.

The war and the means to achieving his political ascendancy, is what weakens the Force further. This again goes back to the earlier drafts. The second draft in particular.

LUKE: "As the Republic spread throughout the galaxy, encompassing over a million worlds, the GREAT SENATE grew to such overwhelming proportions that it no longer responded to the needs of its citizens. After a series of assassinations and elaborately rigged elections, the Great Senate became secretly controlled by the Power and Transport guilds. When the Jedi discovered the conspiracy and attempted to purge the Senate, they were denounced as traitors. Several Jedi allowed themselves to be tried and executed, but most of them fled into the Outland systems and tried to tell people of the conspiracy. But the elders chose to remain behind, and the Great Senate diverted them by creating civil disorder. The Senate secretly instigated race wars, and aided anti-government terrorists. They slowed down the system of justice, which caused the crime rate to rise to the point where a totally controlled and oppressive police state was welcomed by the systems. The Empire was born. The systems were exploited by a new economic policy which raised the cost of power and transport to unbelievable heights. Many worlds were destroyed this way. Many people starved…"

These actions are not unlike what happens in the PT. Different actions, but of a similar content. That history lesson leads into the fall of the Jedi passage that I posted.

 

As a major story element, that's not the best route to take imo. With people saying "bring balance to the Force" left and right, a straightforward answer should be given.

There's intrigue/mystical and then there's confusion. I'm still confused as of 2015.

If you destroy the Sith, that will tip the balance toward the Jedi and the light side. That's still out of balance. Unless I'm missing some hidden gem buried under 5,000 feet of sand, the balance of the Force concept makes little to no sense.

 

The answer has been given.

"I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The “phantom menace” refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader—also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction and Qui-Gon are correct—Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine interview, 1999.

The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the Force."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

"The first film starts with the last age of the Republic; which is it's getting tired, old, it's getting corrupt. There's the rise of the Sith, who are now becoming a force, and in the backdrop of this you have Anakin Skywalker: a young boy who's destined to be a very significant player in bringing balance back to the Force and the Republic.

In the second film, we get into more of that turmoil. It's the beginning of the Clone Wars, it's the beginning of the end of democracy in the Republic, sorta the beginning of the end of the Republic, and it's Anakin Skywalker beginning to deal with some of his more intense emotions of anger, hatred, sense of loss, possessiveness, jealousy, and the other things he's coping with.

Then we will get to the 3rd film, where he is seduced to the dark side, which brings up to films four, five, and six, where Anakin's offspring redeem him & allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

--George Lucas, "The Making Of Episode II", ANH SE VHS 2000 release.

 

Interviewer: What does "bring Balance to the Force" mean?
Lucas: Anakin must destroy the Sith, thus bring balance
Interviewer: But, George, how does that bring balance if the Jedi are still afloat?
Lucas: Well Anakin himself became evil, but he ended up destroying himself and the Emperor, thus bringing balance.
Interviewer: But, George, there's good and evil, right? Shouldn't they even each other out? A number of Jedi and Sith at a time?
Lucas: Anakin turned good when he destroyed the Sith, so he brought balance to the Force.

 

The term "Balance" doesn't mean a scale where one side is as full as the other in this case. The Force is balanced when it's 100% Good side.It becomes "unbalanced" when the Dark Side emerges. Too much Dark Side activity and it gets unbalanced to where it is in the PT. That's what the prophesy was all about. The Chosen One restoring the Force back into Balance. I.E. Destroying the Sith.

 

Too much light can be a problem. I can't remember the quotes from the ROTS novel but that was touched upon there. Too much light blinded the Jedi to the darkness or something.
The brighter the light, the stronger the darkness. Or something
Or like in a Utopia. Everything is so regulated that it stifles society.
Like those Justice Lord episodes from the Justice League cartoon.

 

You don't really "need" to. It just helps.

It's a figure of speech, my man. I might say you "need" to read the Oxford Annotated Bible to truly understand that work, but that doesn't mean the Bible is a culturally worthless piece of crap. It just takes a bit of work to understand. I know the concept of working to understand something is anathema to people around here. Everything should be easy.

I really don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. The Force was out of balance because the dark side was tipping the scale too far in one direction. The scales were evened when the Sith were destroyed, because the Sith were the root cause of the imbalance.

Seriously. I'm pretty sure people are deliberately misunderstanding this at this point.

 

I agree, to me it's pretty straight forward.

What I'm discussing is at what point the balance became unbalanced and why the Jedi didn't sense it sooner?. Like Darth-Sinister points out, it was something that happened over a period of time, not something that just occurred overnight. 1) Where the Jedi simply to arrogant to admit there worst enemy had returned without them even knowing? 2) Where they blinded by the high numbers they had? (I don't think it's coincidence that as the number of Jedi's began to decline the darkside became stronger) Or 3) was it simply that they didn't believe in the prophecy, or at Anakin was the chosen one?.

I believe it had a lot to do with numbers 2 and 3. Which also makes the Jedi seem a little less stupid during the PT. They confused the growing dark side with the fact it was because there where less Jedi (Being Killed or leaving the Jedi), and they simply didn't understand (Like us) what the prophecy meant.

 

Mortis is not a major story element.

Straightforwardness is not the way for mythology, mysticism and symbolism.

Okay...

No, it won't. The Jedi are not the light side, nor are the Sith the dark side. Bringing balance to the Force doesn't mean destroying the dark side, it means destroying the Sith which are making the dark side tip over the light. The Jedi and the light side, due to its benign nature, don't take over the dark side by default.

 

Of course they do.

 

there is no such thing as a real prophecy..unless its a self for filling one.

 

I wasn't referring to Mortis. I was referring to "Balance to the Force."

A real stupid excuse to cover up lazy writing. Look at the OT, and say that to the Force, the Jedi, or even the lightsaber, as quick examples. Even Yoda's teachings in Empire. The exposition, to define the mythology, mysticism, and symbolism, was crystal clear. Clarification > ambiguous hodgepodge "balance to the Force. We won't define it."

As the sole representation of the light side in the movies, the Jedi are the light side. As the sole representation of the dark side in the movies, the Sith are the dark side. I don't buy that comment, Alexrd. And what happens if you destroy all of the Sith? The balance is still tipping toward the Jedi...

Balance isn't the correct word to use then.

 

That's it's "lazy writing" is your opinion.

No, they aren't. The Jedi and the Sith are not any side of the Force and never were. They can influence, exploit and be affected by them, just like every living being.

You don't have to. Doesn't make what I said any less true.

No, it isn't. It's balance of the Force, not balance of the Jedi and Sith.

Yes, it is.

 

The problem with Mortis is the arc is open to interpretation. In the behind the scenes feature, Filoni admits there is a true, single meaning behind Mortis - but neither him, or George, were not prepared to reveal it. We only know three things about Mortis:

• The Prophecy of the Chosen One is explained (sort of)
• It's a metaphor for the entire Saga.
• The Father hints he is similar to Anakin.

We know Anakin is the Chosen One. That's it. But the wording of the prophecy? nobody knows. Does Anakin offspring help maintain the balance? *shrugs* anybody's guess.

 

there is no such thing as a real prophecy..unless its a self for filling one.
----
if that's what you believe, that's what you believe. I guess.

 

"Sorry, we won't reveal it!"

Translation:

"We don't know it."

 

"we're not ready yet" was, if I recall, the words from Filoni.

Mortis is the real Third Secret of Fatima

 

Even if the one "true" interpretation might not be definitively clear at this point, it's pretty obvious that the stuff in the arc wasn't just thrown in randomly. For instance:

• Anakin travels to the bottom of a lava pit and turns to the dark side because of a terrible vision of the future....that's an obvious commentary on his turn in the films.
• Ahsoka is resurrected by a dying female avatar of the light side, who combines her waning life force with Anakin's to create new life out of nothing. That's a pretty obvious reference to Padme's death and the birth of the twins. It's Death giving way to Life, the Old selflessly sacrificing itself for the sake of the New.
• The Daughter throws her body in front of her Father's and ends up being killed by the Son. That's a reference to the Jedi fighting the Clone War in an effort to preserve the balance of the Force, and inadvertently opening themselves up to destruction by the Sith in the process, thereby making the imbalance in the Force even worse.

There was clearly some thought put into everything. To insist otherwise is just to be contrary for its own sake.

 

What you seem to fail to grasp is that it isn't balance of equal numbers, but the Force itself is being disrupted. The Jedi aren't disrupting the Force, they're working in harmony with it. The Sith are polluting the Force because they are doing things that are unnatural with the Force, by Palpatine's own admission.

ANAKIN: "He could actually save people from death?"

PALPATINE: "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

Something that Lucas also points out is the problem.

"When you get down to where we are right now in the story, you basically get somebody who’s going to make a pact with the Devil, and it’s going to be a pact with the Devil that says, 'I want the power to save somebody from death. I want to be able to stop them from going to the river Styx, and I need to go to a god for that, but the gods won’t do it, so I’m going to go down to Hades and get the Dark Lord to allow me to have this power that will allow me to save the very person I want to hang on to.' You know, it’s Faust. So Anakin wants that power, and that is basically a bad thing. If you’re going to sell your soul to save somebody you love, that’s not a good thing. That’s as we say in the film, unnatural. You have to accept that natural course of life. Of all things. Death is obviously the biggest of them all. Not only death for yourself but death for the things you care about."

--George Lucas, quoted in J. Windolf's, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005

He also makes it very clear that the Sith are the problem.

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary

When ROTJ ends, there are still other Force users out there. The Bardotta that wasn't wiped out, study the light of the Force. The Nightsisters and Nightbrothers who use the dark side. The Whills. The Priestesses. Countless children being born who are either being taught by Luke, or by Kanan and Ezra. Or any other Jedi survivor.

It was a combination of the three, though less to do with the number of Jedi. There were ten thousand at the start of the war. The issues was arrogance and ignorance. Arrogance because they thought themselves superior without realizing that was what they were becoming. Yoda could see it, but then he also missed his own arrogance which he started to see on Dagobah and the Force planet. They also believed that they had nothing more to learn and so they stopped growing and evolving. The ignorance is that they turned a blind eye to the goings-on of the Republic and failed to see how things were becoming corrupted which would weaken the Force. Their disbelief in the prophecy was born from the fact that they felt that they had gotten rid of the Sith and didn't keep a vigilant watch out for it. Ki-Adi and Mace both assert that they would know if the Sith were back.

Yoda realizes that the harder he tries to destroy Palpatine, the more he isn't able to. Thought his is also brought up in "Overlords."

THE FATHER: "My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other, therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites."

ANAKIN: "As a sanctuary?"

THE FATHER: "And a prison. You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe."

ANAKIN: "I don't understand."

THE FATHER: "It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. The light and the dark. Day with night. Destruction replaced by creation."

ANAKIN: "Then why reveal yourselves to us?"

THE FATHER: "There are some who would like to exploit our power. The Sith are but one. Too much dark or light would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

It isn't that difficult.

Picture the Daughter as Mace Windu, the Son as Palpatine and the Father as the Force. The Daughter realizes that she cannot stop the Son without using the Altar of Mortis. The dagger that can kill all three of them. She attempts to stop him by giving them access to the dagger, but she is killed and thus balance is destroyed. Mace Windu attempts to stop Palpatine by taking drastic action, much like the Daughter. He believes that the only solution is to either remove Palpatine, or to eliminate him. Palpatine manipulates Mace, just as the Daughter is manipulated by the Son. Both are killed through an act of betrayal.

The Father has to stop the Son by sacrificing himself to sever the Son's connection to the Force, which causes him to be stop being evil for a moment and then Anakin kills him. Luke is saved from Palpatine by Vader doing roughly the same thing.

The point where Mortis was to be explained was to come at the end of the show, but then the show was cancelled before then.

 

Did they really say this? Damn, now I'm really disappointed that the show got cancelled. Here's hoping they put out the explanatory information at some point anyway.

 

You guys are being played...