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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Does anybody else view "A New Hope" as the weakest of the OT?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by beedubaya, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. Prequel_Rubbish

    Prequel_Rubbish Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 5, 2014
    Well, the Wookie planet made two appearances in Star Wars history, and both of them were worse than disastrous. Perhaps George made the right call with the Ewoks after all.
     
  2. enigmaticjedi

    enigmaticjedi Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 2, 2011
    Both of those appearances were not during the Battle of Endor though. Wookies fighing an Imperial legion sounds cool no matter how you put it.
     
  3. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    That's not why. Lucas cut the Wookiee battle in the first draft of ANH, because he had so much crammed in that he needed re-work the whole thing. He pushed to later in the story as he was still interested in it, but because of how the Wookiees evolved from being like the Ewoks are in ROTJ to the way the Wookiees are in the rest of the Saga, he couldn't go that route having Chewie as the lone standout among a race of primitives. So he switched it around. What was done in "The Holiday Special" was not what Lucas had in mind with how the Wookiees would behave and what was done in ROTS was much closer.
     
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  4. Prequel_Rubbish

    Prequel_Rubbish Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 5, 2014
    Hmmm, sense of humor this one seems to be lacking.
     
  5. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Hard to tell when it's all just words.
     
  6. Prequel_Rubbish

    Prequel_Rubbish Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 5, 2014
    It's ok. :thumbsup:
     
  7. DealAlterer

    DealAlterer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Nov 2, 2012
    ANH isn't paced slow at all. It only feels slow when compared to ESB and ROTJ because both of those movies were able to dive right into the story without having to bare the responsibility of introducing the characters or fleshing out the setting of the story. But as a standalone movie, which it is, it is paced just fine. I love the way it brings these characters from all corners of the galaxy together for a common cause in their fight against the empire.

    ANH is the foundation for everything.
     
  8. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    Friends, there has only ever been one film which was ever just called "Star Wars". I think we can all take something from that. :p
     
  9. Cartoon Boba

    Cartoon Boba Jedi Knight star 2

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    Nov 30, 2014
    Exactly, sometimes things are meant literally, sometimes ironically and other times people use double irony. There is no body language or tone of voice communicated. Anyway, to put this back on track - go the first Star Wars movie!
     
  10. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    Does anybody else view "A New Hope" as the weakest of the OT?
    I'm glad to see this come up, I always felt like a bad SW fan for somewhat feeling this way. My first viewing of ANH at five or six, I fell asleep during it. It has such importance, as being the first SW film, introducing us to the OT characters, and for pushing us off in the adventurous life of Luke Skywalker...but sometimes it just feels so slow and that it drags on. It's still a fantastic movie, but it usually is the one I watch the least out of the OT.
     
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  11. Haruss

    Haruss Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 24, 2014
    No. It's much weaker than ESB, there's little-to-no depth in it and it's simply a decent space opera action adventure flick with ground-breaking special effects (for its time). But it's still much better than ROTJ. Rehashed Death Star was a very lazy idea for the grand finale and the Ewoks just suck and no amount of "weak force overcomes trainder army" excuses fly with them. It would be believeable with Wookies, but not with tiny teddy bears that can barely move.
     
  12. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 25, 2014
    It's my second favorite star wars. I enjoy the sense of fun it has, with imaginative creatures , robots and ships, making it a galaxy you would't mind visiting yourself. I also like the characters as find them very likable and they introduce them pretty well, with Han Solo and Ben Kenobi being my favorites. While the story is simple and the film does look the most dated of the three, for me I just like the simple fun it gives off. Just my opinion, I can certainly see why some people see it as the weakest though.
     
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  13. Cartoon Boba

    Cartoon Boba Jedi Knight star 2

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    Nov 30, 2014
    The very fact that it's self-contained gives it a big advantage. Imagine trying to watch TESB without any context and without any outlet for further stories. Fans of 'canon' live in a privileged but impractical world. In that way, that latter film would be be a lot better if it wasn't followed by ROTJ.
     
  14. Prequel_Rubbish

    Prequel_Rubbish Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 5, 2014
    Not really. Having Return of the Jedi is what makes The Empire Strikes Back a superior motion picture. The film needed context for its dramatic irony to be fully appreciated. Indeed, until Jedi came out and perhaps for awhile after, people had mixed views about Empire and the original Star Wars was generally considered a better film. As time has passed and people can put the story into better perspective, history has proved The Empire Strikes Back to be the fan and critical favorite of the series, as well as one of the best motion pictures ever made.
     
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  15. skygawker

    skygawker Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 25, 2014
    ANH is probably my least favorite of the OT, but that's not really saying much - all three have their strengths and weaknesses, so it's more because the other two have more moments and themes that I particularly enjoyed than because there's anything wrong with ANH itself.

    Eh, I half agree, half disagree. It works as an introduction; provides set up for the later two movies, and is given extra layers of meaning by the prequels. And there are some things that really feel like only 'part' of a story, like Luke being given and trained with his father's weapon by Obi-Wan, but never using it. And for all that it wraps up with a victory, it works better with the other films to depict more of the conflict against the Empire than that single battle.

    I don't find either of them annoying, but that's just me. I thought both characters' behaviors made sense in terms of their greater story arcs, and the moments that are "whiny" don't actually add up to much.

    Yeah, gotta agree with this one. It's a great scene, but just a little too long. ANH being slower-paced generally than the other movie makes sense given its function as an introduction to the saga, but that particular scene is too long for the amount that we get out of it, especially on repeat viewings.



    I also kind of agree with this one, with emphasis on compared to the other movies. As a standalone, I'm sure it wouldn't have felt shallow - and for the most part, I wouldn't think of it as being shallow as I was watching it. But having so much (understandable!) emphasis on introduction means that when watched with the other five episodes, it does stick out to me as less meaty.

    I personally am a fan of the IV V I II III VI order, since I don't think either release-order or internal-chronological order quite flow well. I was introduced OT then PT (and I do mean that literally; I watched all six in a row at a sleepover with some other girls - though I'd seen the OT in the past before that, I had been young enough that they didn't really stick), and while I agree that ANH works best as the opener to the saga with all the mysteries it presents, RotS is very much a "midpoint" movie and RotJ really has to be the end. I've also heard arguments in favor of I II IV V III VI, but I've never actually tried it.
     
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  16. Tarkin's Fuzzy Slippers

    Tarkin's Fuzzy Slippers Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 18, 2014
    I used to find ANH somewhat "weak" but I've grown to love it more with age, and with the more I view it. It was my least fave of the OT, but has gotten to the point where I consider it my 2nd fave now. Though my ordering does tend to correlate with how much I like the villains in the installments.
     
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  17. Argagax

    Argagax Jedi Padawan

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    May 19, 2014
    I have to say (is this heresy?) that I've always found it boring. I place it with TPM as my two least favorite of the six.
    Mind you, that doesn't mean bad, just not as good.
     
  18. TheChosenOne095

    TheChosenOne095 Jedi Youngling

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    Jan 6, 2015
    Remember that when they made it, they didn't know if the movie was going to have succes, so maybe Lucas wanted it to be able to stand alone by itself in case people didn't like it, that is imo the reason why the emperor is not introduced in this movie.
     
  19. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 20, 2005

    You've put that very well -- IMO.

    I think Jedi, for me, ranks a hair lower than ANH and TESB, as it seems to lack some of its progenitors' sense of pictorialism and rich invention. It's also a bit of a blow to Star Wars, or the OT, at least, to see Jedi (and to a lesser extent Empire) do away with that "throwaway" ambience that the original nailed perfectly. Then again, it does give the original a memorable flavour/texture of its own.

    On the other hand, Jedi might be my favourite, in a lot of ways. There's a grand sense of reckoning about it (more enhanced after the PT -- for this fan, at least), and it has a slightly locked-down, "80s fantasy" look that is a pure pleasure to behold. It's quite extravagant on its own terms and brings back some of that playful nerdishness lost in the metallic malaise of TESB. The goof is strong with this one, but so is the soulfully-penetrating melodrama. Flawed, a little limited, but still a fantastic capper.

    As for the main question... I'm quite sensitive to the argument that SW/ANH is a little simplistic and tonally-thin compared to the other installments. Yes, indeed, but this is part of its indelible charm. Perhaps it is better thought of as a rather direct and strange follow-up to the gothic tragedy of ROTS. Or the middle installment to an internal trilogy that goes ROTS-ANH-TESB. Somehow, for all the bells and whistles of the other movies, the flamboyant visuals and genre-quoting combined with powerful philosophical undertones and other profundities, ANH retains an authentic otherworldiness unmatched by its sequels and prequels. It's quite nostalgic and has a pleasing (playful) austerity about it. And it's dated, but in a way that adds a certain character to it. A remarkably fun, entertaining, beautiful-looking (its cinematography and art direction, if anything, remain underrated), tightly-sprawling, giddy B-movie masterpiece.

    My thoughts of the day.
     
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  20. Saga Explorer

    Saga Explorer Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 14, 2015
    Its more like a reintroduction to the Saga now and it stands better on its own.
    (It's the most cheesy Star Wars movie now\which is NOT a bad thing.)
     
  21. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Love it. It is pretty much the epitome of adventure movies, sure it shares conventions with other adventure movies, but that's not a true flaw, just a reflection of the genre. ANH doesn't have any real flaws.
     
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  22. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    As you say it really was supposed to be a one-off and if anything more came of it then it was supposed to be The Adventures of Luke Skywalker not The Rise, Fall and Redemption of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.

    If Lucas knew that he was going to do a trilogy and that Vader was Luke's father from the start and Leia the sister and that he would need Obi-Wan for later films then it would have been quite a different story.

    Obi-Wan would have survived and Luke and Leia would find out about their relationship in the first movie. We as viewers would possibly have found out about Vader but not Luke and Leia would not until the second movie.
     
  23. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    Actually the Emperor is introduced in SW. We simply don't see him but he is acknowledged.
     
  24. Ewok Poet

    Ewok Poet Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2014
    It was my least favourite of the OT twenty+ years ago and it still is. While the '70s feeling was interesting to me from the first moment I saw it as a kid and it reminded me of my mom's numerous old magazines, it was the one I completely forgot by the time I found a novelisation in a local library. And then...I just did not see it one single time from 2007 to 2014; while I did watch the other two when I'd get a chance. There is nothing bad about it, it's just that the other two are better.
     
  25. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    I still think and almost always have ESB is the weakest.