CT Does anyone else actually like Anakin's "NOOOO" added in ROTJ?

If they follow the same mindset that they applied to TPM, they will do that for the next restoration (which they must, since the masters they have are only in 2K).

 

I'm fine with most of the OT changes (I grew up with the 2004 SE), but this one is an exception. It just sounds lame to me, there was absolutely no need for it.

 

The point of the scene is that Vader is lying to the Emperor. He's playing stupid, because his plan is to turn Luke and overthrow the Emperor behind the Emperor's back.

And, as the creator, he has every right to make changes to that film, especially since he got the okay to make the changes he did make from Kershner before he died.

I don't mind the "No" change in Jedi. And it's not because I need things explained to me or because I have the intellect of a parsnip. It's just a nice little connection to the prequels. Big whoop.

 

No, that isn't the "point" of the scene. That's the fan boy "rational" for the scene. Big difference.
He's not lying to the Emperor because literally two seconds later he's discussing turning Luke to the dark side.

It's okay to admit it was just horrible, plot damaging dialogue that has since been fixed in the NEW re-releases because of how ridiculously stupid it was.

 

He's discussing turning Luke to the dark side after Palpatine tells him, "Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true." He's telling Vader not to BS him and that he knows Vader's been looking for Skywalker (as we know he has through that ever telling opening crawl).

 

What is the point of Darth Vader pretending he's an incompetent idiot in front of the Emperor when the Emperor opens the conversation by saying Luke Skywalker is their new enemy? lol

 

Because of what I posted before: he's trying to get to Luke behind the Emperor's back. And the Emperor was having none of it.

 

Palpatine: "We have a new enemy - Luke Skywalker"

Vader: "WAT?"

Palpatine: "The rebel who destroyed the Death Star is your son."

Vader: "YOU SURE? BTW I'M STUCK IN AN ASTEROID FIELD AND LOSING STAR DESTROYERS FAST."

Palpatine: "Luke Skywalker is a danger to us!"

Vader: "WHO?"

Yeah, some master plan, dude. lol. I don't think idiocy and incompetence is something Sith Lords look for in their henchmen.

 

But the Sith are known to stab each other in the back. Which is exactly what Vader was planning to do to Palpatine.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the sub-plot of Vader to turn Luke and use him to overthrow the Emperor. Vader says it himself after he chops off Luke's hand.

However, the POINT of the scene in question, was to show that they're planning on turning Luke to the darkside. It wasn't to introduce Vader's "secret plan" or to act like an idiot in front of the Emperor, so when you go back and try and needlessly change it to that it becomes a complete fiasco, which it was, which is why it's since been changed again.

 

...It hasn't been changed again. The same line of dialogue is in the Blu Ray version.

 

Because you, a mere fan, is the one who decides what's one or the other, right?

No. Vader was still lying to the Emperor from the start, with the original scene. The new dialogue (post 1997) doesn't change the fact that he's been chasing Luke behind the Emperor's back.

 

The point of that scene was to establish Luke Skywalker as a major Galactic player instead of a farm boy. It's to show that Vader kneels to the Emperor. It's to show that Vader and the Emperor's plans are to turn Luke to the dark side of the force instead of kill him like any other rebel. In other words, the POINT of the scene is to set up the entire end of the movie on Bespin.

Please explain to me how that point of that scene is not that, but instead to reveal some "secret Vader plan to play stupid?"

Vader already reveals his intentions after his revelation to Luke when he tells him his father. We don't need it also creeping into a scene where it makes zero sense, a scene that wasn't fundamentally built for that purpose.

This is exactly the reason a lot of people think George Lucas is a hack that got lucky.

 

Let's see: He financed the film on his own, produced the film with his own company, created all of the film's characters, wrote the film's story and two script drafts that essentially shaped the film, had cast the main characters, observed the whole process from the first design sketch to the last edit, hired all the other people working on it...and it's not his film? Whose then?

If you mean simply because he didn't direct it, then yes, but you should mention ROTJ as well and say that explicitly. Kershner approved the newer versions of ESB as long he was alive. Marquand didn't get that chance (because he was already dead).

The change:
I've not seen it in the context of the film yet. So I can't really comment on it. I actually think it is likely that someone would aspirate a sound in such a moment. A lot if times a physical effort becomes audible. It's just that, cinematically, the scene worked fine and - from my impression on YouTube - the "Nooo" sounds terribly out of place. I've heard it's better in other languages.

 

A hack that created something that you apparently love everything about...except for the guy who created it for you.

 

Where would Star Wars be without the guy who created Vader's helmet? Or the sound effects for TIE fighters? Or the sound effect for lightsabers?
Lucas played a role in creating Star Wars. He didn't create it himself. The Original Trilogy is great but he had lost some battles in its creation that lead to what it ultimately was. It's also pretty well known that A New Hope was completely saved in editing and the original product that Lucas had was a complete disaster.

 

There can be more than one main point in a scene, you know.

 

He could have said, "You know what? Screw writing this script that's been giving me a headache. I'll wait tables instead."

Everything started from Lucas. Guys like Ben Burtt or Joe Johnston? You would have never known them had George Lucas not A) come up with the idea for Star Wars and B) kept at it when it got too hard. Did a lot of people work on those films? Absolutely. But anyone that's worked on any successful film gives kudos to the man who brought it all together: the director.

 

That's great but that doesn't mean I'm going to come up with flimsy rationals to justify awful and awkward dialogue changes.

I'm happy it's no longer in his hands and I'm sure I'm not alone. Kudos to George for the original spark but he more or less killed what made it great and changed the entire franchise into an annoying kids cartoon.

 

It's "pretty well known"? How many people have seen the various cuts? How long ago was that (clouding people's memories)? Almost 40 years? Was Lucas expelled from the editing room or don't you think he was quite involved (especially since one of the editors was his wife)? And where's the line for an "original product" anyway? The first cut, the second, next-to-last? And, finally, why don't you demand that "desaster" of that's the f.... ORIGINAL?!?!?!?

 

It still does all that. But that's not the only point.

The point of the new dialogue is to make it compatible with the events of RotS. The Emperor is "revealing" to Vader that, after all, Padmé gave birth and that the offspring survived. Of course Vader knows about it already, but the Emperor never revealed that to him and thus Vader plays dumb and pretends he's surprised (and confronts Palpatine with his own lie).

That's completely irrelevant to what's being discussed.

And there goes your credibility...

 

You also may want to revisit the actual reasons why Lucas' friends were harsh on the early edit.

Hint: subtract Johnny Williams and add temp splices from Dambusters.

 

What Ady has done by mediums of continuity work, effects etc is beyond fantastic. Having seen the workprint of ESB:R myself (no joke on that one at all) stands ground that if a fan from the West Midlands can do something so great - then why couldn't LFL do something one man can do with a high end custom PC? Revisited over any of the official Special Editions any day!


And believe me, even that workprint was something special!

 

What rock is this, again?

 

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