Lit Does anyone feel "betrayed" about post-ROTJ EU becoming AU?

Since Episode 7 was announced, im sure we have all thought that there is a strong chance that the EU after ROTJ is going to become non-canon, in other words, AU.

And this recant news about Episode 7 just helps to confirm this.

So does the EU after ROTJ, no longer being canon, give you any sense of betrayal?

After all, it was with the message that the post-ROTJ EU was canon, that it was a continuation of the lives of the characters from the film, not a "what if" or an AU, that brought it to rise as well as us buying its material. Sure we knew that the EU did not have the highest level of canon, but it was still considered/marketed as canon by lucasfilm.

I'm sure some of us here sure wouldn't have gotten invested (not spent as much money) on the post-ROTJ EU if we were told that it was just an AU, that it wasn't really the film characters we followed, just alternate versions of them.

Of course we still own the books, so im not trying to say that are money was completely wasted on buying books that are basically now not canon. But it sure takes away some of the meaning/worth of said book(s) (knowing that these stories didn't happen in the official star wars universe, and some characters don't even exist in said world).

I sure would not have spent as much money as i have, if i knew at the start that these books were AU.

What do you think?

 

My experience with Star Wars is my experience. "My" Star Wars story can still have Thrawn in it if I want. That just makes it different than Lucas'. But even if I didn't feel this way about how canon works, if the sequel movies suddenly made NJO or something else invalid, it doesn't stop me from reading the books and enjoying the story.

 

It was always a fan delusion. The Saga was never beholden to the EU.

 

For me continuity has always been a means to an end, not its own end. Frankly, the Expanded Universe has not positioned itself well for a sequel trilogy. The well was poisoned long ago.

And on a personal note, since the post-ROTJ stuff stopped being interesting to me with New Jedi Order, and since the New Jedi Order has already been devalued "canonically," it really doesn't phase me that it didn't "happen" now, because from a character development and thematic standpoint, there's no difference between it as it is now, and as it was yesterday or the day before Disney bought Lucasfilm. The events of it had already been rendered largely incidental to the sole purpose of setting up Jacen to become Darth Caedus, with most everything else in that series, whether it be Coruscant's status, the Yuuzhan Vong, the development of Luke's Jedi order into something distinct from the prequel Jedi, and a lot of other plot hooks being swept away and ignored.

 

Like I've said before, Star Wars got a good run. If it devolves into worthless 'what-if' nonsense, I'll keep what I have and spend my money elsewhere.

No, it was a statement on the back of Heir to the Empire.

Again, if continuity doesn't matter, just a "good story", why are you paying for novels when there's a near-infinite library of fan fiction?

 

And KJA wrote in the foreword to Dark Empire:

“When you read Dark Empire, or any of the other novels, remember that although Lucasfilm has approved them, these are our sequels, not George Lucas’s. If Lucasfilm ever makes films that take place after Return of the Jedi, they will be George Lucas’s own creations, probably with no connection to anything we have written.”

 

Maybe instead making all of post-ROTJ EU non-canon, it should have been everything (except perhaps Legacy) post-NJO

 

1. The statement on the back of Heir to the Empire wasn't on the back of anything else.
2. The canon heirarchy.

 

No, just on the bestselling novel that brought Star Wars back into the public eye.

Sorry, but paying for what is available for free is related to "canon heirarchy" how?

KJA also claims that his Dune novels are somehow based on what Frank Herbert intended.

 

I'm not sure what point that you are trying to make here since he seems to have been proven correct in this case. What's the point of attacking his credibility?

 

I don't feel betrayed; I knew it was going to happen when these films were announced. Sad, yes. Betrayed...no.

 

It pisses me off because I want to know what happens in THIS canon. I don't care if they call it AU as long as they keep writing stories in this one so I know what happens. If they change everything I'm done because I know 100% they will invalidate the Yuuzhan Vong at that point and that will destroy my experience.

 

He was claiming that the EU is fact and KJA wasn't smart enough to realize that.

 

This is, I think, right on the money.

Yep, there it is. The specter of a sequel trilogy was always one that was looming in the background, even if it seemed less and less likely to rear its head as the years went on. I'm looking forward to Episode VII, and the current post-ROTJ EU won't lose any of its gusto, I think, as long as all of it becomes an alternate universe. The only thing that would bug me would be if they arbitrarily picked a cutoff date and said "Everything after 16.347 ABY is non-canon." But as that's not very likely at all, I'm preemptively satisfied.

What they really oughtta do is figure out a way to keep the alternate universe marketable. Like, actually make them parallel timelines, and have some crazy The Doctoresque character who can travel between them.

 

They likely can't go beyond 8 ABY with a cutoff because Jacen and Jaina do not look to exist in the sequel trilogy and they are born in Thrawn trilogy.

 

Maybe instead of making it non-canon, they could say that post-ROTJ EU did happen, just in a different universe, basically confirming that a multiverse does exist in star wars.

Therefore we could have 2 timelines/universes.

After all, i did like what they do with star trek, making something new while keeping the old timeline still intact.

 

YES. That's exactly what I want. Have Luceno write an Insider short story set just after the Battle of Endor where Wicket knocks over a can of antimatter and causes the timelines to diverge. Bing, bang, boom, the canon is saved.

 

You could say that the destruction of the Death Star spurred it. And the destruction of the first Death Star is what caused Marvel Star Wars to be wonky to the existing continuity.

 

I've been pushing that particular cart a while, now. Take CWAS with the ST, and we have a winner.

I strongly doubt that will ever happen, and I don't think it needs to, either. "Infinities" has existed without some Watcher-equivalent providing in-universe explanations for the different universes.

Funny, because I interpreted myself to mean that KJA wasn't a credible source on authorial intent.

But if we're throwing around quotes, let's take Steve Sansweet's opening to the 2008 SW Encyclopedia:

"What always made the Star Wars universe different among sprawling sagas - tying everything together into one vast story and doing everything possible to eliminate inconsistencies - also continues."

Different among sprawling sagas. That's what has been special about the EU. It was unique - and it's death isn't something to celebrate.

 

Who is celebrating?

 

I don't think anyone's disagreeing with you there.

sorry about the miscommunication.

 

If they had to start anew what they could do is have Dark Horse Comics/whoever can make Star Wars comics now to create a closing storyline for the current post-ROTJ EU. If anyone here reads/knows DC Comics I got the idea from the story arc called "Flashpoint" where a whole lot of time travel/dimension hopping and all that sort happened and so on and so forth all resulting in the New 52 and a "reboot" for the DC Universe. They could do the same for this cannon? I believe it deserves that much considering the good it's done for us over the years. Plus it keeps a unified continuity which is what I like about Star Wars plus from a business man's standpoint if all the established material is still valid(somewhat), it might still keep on selling, although a bit less than before. Bottom line is comics like Star Wars: Legacy (which is still printing if I'm not mistaken?) would not suffer from becoming invalid cannon.

Here's how the story line would work, it would take place within the Star Wars: Legacy comics which take place in the furthest point in the future of Star Wars.

The Yuuzhan Vong are amassing their forces for a new invasion of the galaxy after being decimated first time around. Entire worlds like Naboo, Corellia,(insert more planets of significant importance) are being destroyed one by one. The next planet they have in their sights is none other than Coruscant itself. As for where the Jedi's/Republic's/Fel Empire/Remaining Sith's statuses, all are exhausted from the last war, weakening them to allow the Vong to strike again and take revenge on the galaxy after the first Yuuzhan Vong war.

As the battle for the life of Coruscant progresses both Cade Skywalker and Ania Solo realise that there is no hope left for the galaxy, until Luke's force ghost as well as ghosts of other Jedi appear saying that they can help them by using the force to reset time to the post-ROTJ era or send them back in time to prevent the Vong invasion with some weapon(whichever works better), thus ending the threat for good. As Coruscant slowly gets destroyed they get sent through time to the place right where the Vong Invasion is about to begin and they end it and give their lives in the process.

And in the new timeline everyone remains oblivious to these events thus allowing the creation of a new continuity where Disney can do whatever the hell they want.

If they do something like this you can:

a) Put all EU fans' minds to rest knowing that the established continuity remains unified with the new one, one way or another and they know that this happened in the back of their minds while watching Episode VII.

b) The time reset can allow Disney to create all new characters and new stories, maybe even have Chewbacca alive.

 

The problem with the DC model is that it's been an unwieldy mess every time they've tried it, and they end up trying to get to the Marvel model - a single continuity. The "New 52" was probably their most powerful effort to do this, with very mixed results.
Following the example of the relationship of the Marvel movies and Marvel comics would be better. You can put out a few comics and novels directly related to the movies for the collectors, and continue the EU as normal. Throw a few bones by incorporating a couple movie references in the books, or something - but otherwise, never the twain shall meet.

No problem. And I should state that I do like KJA's work with Dan Wallace on The Essential Atlas.

 

ScorpionJedi: Without going into detail, that's the exact type of things I'd hate to see. Not that it isn't creative thinking. I just think that it'd be much simple for someone to go: "There's timeline A and timeline B." and leave out the theatrics.