Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Darth_Angelus, Nov 28, 2002.
Just for curiosity.
Star Wars has many themes, one of which is about people's strengths and weaknesses. The fact that Anakin in a big way shows both sides of his personality is very telling and makes for a great story. ROTJ is the climax of the Saga and the final confrontation between Luke/Vader/Anakin/Emperor is one of my favorite parts of the entire Saga, mainly because of the redemption.
Redemption is a central point in GL's story dating back to the first drafts.
...well, now that you mention it, YES! Not so much the actual redemtion part, but the; welcome to force heaven, here's a gift certificate to the hair club for jedi, part IS a bit much. If, as he claims, George Lucas is making these films for children, what kind of message does this send? Torture, murder and terrorize for a few decades, then throw some old geezer down a reactor shaft, and all will be forgiven?
It sends a message that no matter what someone has done in the past, they are capable of change. It's never too late to be saved.
...saved? Oh, give me a break. At the very least, don't you think Vader deserved an eon or two in jedi purgetory?
"...well, now that you mention it, YES! Not so much the actual redemtion part, but the; welcome to force heaven, here's a gift certificate to the hair club for jedi, part IS a bit much. If, as he claims, George Lucas is making these films for children, what kind of message does this send? Torture, murder and terrorize for a few decades, then throw some old geezer down a reactor shaft, and all will be forgiven?"
Some people read into things a little too much and even perceive messages that aren't even there.
...oh, I agree...but, this relates to what I said how, exactly?
I still think that Anakin Skywalker's tale of fall and redemption - the core of the whole SW saga - is the most touching story of all time.
It's interesting to see how quickly anakin is redeemed. A few minutes after tempting luke and battling him, he starts telling luke to spread the word to his sister.
I see no problem with redemption.
I would have, on the other hand, been rather upset if he had survived and the Rebel Alliance hadn't executed him for crimes against the galaxy.
It's what makes SW stand head and shoulders above most other works of fantasy and sci-fi. Most villians are destroyed at the end of the film or series in a vast, amazing, hour-long battle that....still isn't any where near as compelling and involving as Luke redeeming Vader, and Vader giving his life for Luke.
The Bible has a little something about redemption in it; do we have a problem with that?
Even the apostle Paul, credited with amazing feats and considered one of the greatest evangelists EVER persecuted and killed Christians for a living before his own redemption.
As previously stated, it's never too late to change.
Maybe there's no hell in Star Wars? And btw, I think it's part of Jedi philosophy to forgive people...
Does anyone here have a problem with Vader been redeemed?
I do. I wish that, instead of the sequels, GL re-released SW in theatres in 1978 with about 5-10 minutes of additional footage tacked on the end. In this footage, Vader (who has landed on Yavin-4) would be slain by Luke in a lightsabre duel a few days after the medal ceremony.
I think the "all well that ends well" attitude at the end is a bit simplistic. I mean, we're talking about a guy who enslaved the entire galaxy because he didn't like his teacher and had a problem with his girlfriend. Picture if we all did that. But, seeing as Lucas is making Star Wars as a kind of modern fairytale, I'll accept it.
I'm not sure it's part of the Jedi philosophy, certainly when they're alive Obi-wan and Yoda don't seem to be that interested in redeeming Vader.
The redemption of Vader works on a much deeper level then it ever could for most characters.
Anakin/Vader is physically and metaphorically being converted into a cold ruthless killing machine.
What his redemption shows is that as long as there is part of him that is still human (again physically and metaphorically) then it is still possible to tap into this.
Vader's redemtion is neccesary to the story on so many levels... People who don't like it are probably the same people who think of Star Wars as just another cliche sci-fi movie. The guy above who posted that Ep. 4 should have ended with Luke killing Vader in a lightsaber duel on Yavin-4 just proved that.
Vader - betrayer and murderer of Jedi- would fit in quite nicely in Dante's ninth circle of Hell with fellow traitors Judas, Brutus, and Cassius...
"Anakin/Vader is physically and metaphorically being converted into a cold ruthless killing machine. "
I couldn't agree more...I think this transformation into a being "more machine than man" is a divine retribution of sorts... Anakin is a man driven by passion (love of mom and padme) , idealism, and vanity (vanity derived from his abilities)- the very traits that lead to the anger , fear, frustration, and all that jazz..
What more fitting punishment for a passionate, idealistic, vain individual is there than to disfigure him and transform him into a lumbering cybernetic symbol of technological tyranny?
(I have too much Dante and his divine punishments on my mind these days)...
like someone said paaul killed christians then became 1. i think it was the most noble part of star wars. and btw , if gl decided to make a sequel trilogy and it just so happened that some how luke and leias love 4 vader brought him back then i think luke and leia would convince the whatever
(rebellion new republic what ever system of democracy is present at that time)to let him live. but i would prefer if he stayed dead b/c if he lives it wouldnt be as touching when he died
No I don't.
Of course I don't have a problem with Vader's redemption. After all, he WAS Anakin before he was Vader. This was GL's plan from the very beginning. If some people can't accept this, then they can close themselves up in their little world and watch ANH over and over to try and forget the rest of the saga was ever made. No, that won't do, because as I said before, GL had already planned Vader's redemption before he released ANH. Oh well, too bad.
BTW, the throne room scenes in RotJ are some of the best in the entire saga, IMO.
Best damn moment of the saga, if you ask me!
No, I think it makes the story all the more interesting.. that someone so evil can actually change and be redeemed is so amazing. so nope!