Does anyone here have a problem with Vader been redeemed?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Darth_Angelus, Nov 28, 2002.

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  1. VanLiz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2002
    star 1
    I don't have a problem with his redemption because he died at the end of ROTJ. As others have said, Vader committed too many crimes and allowed too many crimes to be committed in the name of the Empire to be allowed to live happily ever after.
  2. JediHunterCommand Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2003
    star 1
    The thing is, I think a few people are confusing forgiving and excusing.

    Excusing means that everything is explained away, it's all cool. Obviously Vader/Anakin could never be excused.

    Forgiveness means you remember the person's sins, but you say, "That's all right. We love you regardless."

    I find it easy to forgive Vader.
  3. Mateo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2001
    star 4
    I have two opinions on this.
    1.The Logical side of me says that Anakin Skywalker deliberatly walked down the path that lead him to the Dark Side and because of that and the fact that he was given a choice to join Supreme Chancellor and freely accepted it and became evil on his own without Sidious being able to force him into it,i say that he doesnt deserve redemption and his miserable life and probelms are his own fault.

    2.the Emontional family oriented side of me cannot blame Luke for wanting to save and redeem his father and help him turn away from the Dark Side,however its outwayed by the knowledge of what vader did and how he chose evil instead of good.

    Basically vader deserved to die evil without redemption,its not our job in life to find a wayward soul/or violent hatefull person and try to get them to renounce their ways and become good decent people,its theirs and vader didnt choose until luke intervened.
  4. Valkor Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 4

    Vader's redemption is the single greatest thing about Star Wars. Like all great movies, it shows that no matter a person's past, "there's no one you can save that can't be saved..."

    it's easy, all you need is love
  5. SLR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    I think we should be careful in evaluating his redemption, because we really don't know the full extent of his sins. So far, onscreen the worst thing he has done was while he was still Anakin (tusken massacre). Vader did nothing of that magnitude of evil or wrong in the OT (that was shown on screen). Some will say the destruction of Alderaan. But that was Tarkin's order. Yes he could have tried to stop him, but Tarkin outranked him in that decision. Plus, the Emperor probably would have agreed w/ Tarkin's tactics and would have been angry w/ Vader for stopping him. As we see in ROTJ, Vader is scared of Palps.
    Maybe EP III will show more of Vader's sins (a large role in the Jedi purge). I think Vader's level of participation in the Jedi purge is key in evaluating his redemption. If his role was active, it definitely raises the level of his sins. If he did not have much of a role in the purge, his sins aren't that great as to be irredeemable. His only mistakes then would have been the Tusken Massacre and serving an evil regime.
  6. Jedi of the West Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 1999
    star 4
    No. Even with western religion, you can be forgiven if you ask for it.
  7. UK Sullustian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4
    If Anakin HAD survived, I'm sure he could have used the "Narcotic and Corrupting" influence of the Dark Side as mitigating circumstances to his actions.

    In the end though, only through his sacrificing his own life could he earn the redemption in the end.

    UKS

  8. Aiwendil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 1
    Wow. I'm surprised to find that so many people have problems with Vader's redemption.

    Certainly sentiments like "Vader should have gone to hell" (or purgatory, or whatever) are out of place in the Star Wars universe. Yes, Han uses the word "hell" in ESB. But the whole concept of hell seems to be alien to the philosophy of the Jedi. And it must be noted that this philosophy is correct in the Star Wars universe in a way that no real-world religion or metaphysical philosophy is indisputably correct. Of course, we still don't know the intricacies of Star Wars's metaphysics; but it's very possible that a more satisfying explanation of the whole matter of disappearing at death, reappearing as ghosts, etc. will be given in episode III.

    But I feel compelled to point out one particular thing. It has been said that killing the Emperor is not sufficient to make up for all of Vader's evil deeds. But surely it is not the ACT of killing the Emperor that redeems Anakin; rather, it is the internal DECISION to repudiate the Dark Side. I cannot believe that the Jedi (or the Force) would judge a person's morality by external rather than internal features. Suppose Anakin had, internally, repudiated the Dark Side, but for some reason was unable to kill the Emperor. Surely this external, or physical, failure would not lessen his redemption. Or consider the inverse: suppose he had not repudiated the Dark Side, but killed the Emperor anyway - say because he realized the Emperor intended to kill him and have Luke replace him. Surely he would not then have been considered redeemed, though his external action was the same.

    So I think that the redemption of Anakin is not to be thought of as consisting in his killing of the Emperor. Rather, it is to be understood as a sudden and profound internal transformation. Is killing the Emperor insufficient to make up for all of his evil deeds? Yes. Any number of mere actions are insufficient. But a simple and profound internal transformation - that is all that is needed.

  9. GivePeaceAChance Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2002
    star 1
    If we're counting bodies, I'm pretty sure Luke kills far more people than Vader! No wonder the Emperor wanted to upgrade his Skywalker.
  10. Queengodess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2000
    star 4
    Just wanted to say I truly, deeply agree with Aiwendil. :)
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