Discussion Does anyone think Darth Vader will *not* be in Episode VII?

Would they really let Obi-Wan win and risk turning Vader into a wimp? Vader is the more popular character and has already lost too much villain cred due to Lucas stupidity.

In any case I agree we don't need to see it at all.

 

They'd HAVE to let Obi-Wan win, short of outside assistance for Vader ala "Purge". Vader defeated Obi-Wan in ANH partly because Obi-Wan let him and partly because Obi-Wan was old. Back on Mustafar, they were somewhat evenly matched but Obi-Wan still cleaned his clock. Slap on 3 extra cybernetic limbs, some scorched innards, and a life-support suit, Vader's not gonna be one-upping Obi-Wan anytime soon, even with added mastery of the dark side.

People built up Vader to be this mega-battle-badass, but George's assessment, that he's a mostly-robot guy with significantly reduced power potential (which is still very high), is pretty much the most logical. Suited Vader was NOT the apprentice Palpatine had been hoping for, the one he bragged to Yoda about. Vader was badass in the OT because he was up against non-Jedi, an old man, and a half-trained cocky kid who he was never seriously trying to kill most of the time (aside from their FIRST encounter, in the Death Star trench). He was never really supposed to be some Microseries-Grievous-level cyborg ultra-menace that so many fans seem to think he oughta be in the 'dark times'.

 

Amen to that. If I had it my way there would be no Vader spin off either. If they want to tell Vader stories they should do it in the upcoming "Rebels" animated series.

I agree: a Vader spin-off is more tolerable than Vader in EP7.

As for a spin-off, Vader would have to have a whole other adversary, it can't be his kids or Obi-Wan. It has to be someone worthy of a film, but has nothing to do with the rest of the saga... Ahsoka anyone Since Ahsoka isn't mentioned in the films and Vader believes his wife and kid(s) are dead, and if he believes Order 66 is successful, than the only other person that had importance in his life (known to be alive) is Ahsoka.

 

I fully expect Vader to make an appearance by the end of the ST. Possibly resurrected by IX.

 

Fans: Do not want!

Non-fans: Even we have standards!

 

THAT is something I can totally agree with.

 

I want Vader back. Why not? He's the Chosen One.

 

He ceased to be Vader, consumed by Anakin.

 

Wow. One day away and look what happens.

No Vader in ST. Feels more like a petition now, than an answer to the post.

 

Exactly.
There is a difference between Anakin and Vader. Some people argue that fact, but there is.

 

Actually, whether or not there is a difference depends on the context, and in the context of Vader appearing in anything that take place post-ROTJ, there is a difference. In the context of writing a biography of Anakin, there wouldn't be.

 

See, that is an interpretation that only exists due to Lucas downplaying his own older story just so that the PT looks better in comparison. Luke is a fully trained Jedi knight with the potential of his father in the OT and Vader is the villain who gives the protagonists all hell all the time. He also has the best kill ratio of all the villains.

Only the last 15 years have included so much official fanwanking that now people believe it.

Comparing saberfighting of 80ties movies against todays over the topness and drawing in-universe conclusion feels wrong to me. What will we do if the ST fights are even more over the top? Are then the PT Jedi also weaklings?

And what will you do if one of the spinoffs shows suited Vader fighting PT style?

 

True..biography-wise, there wouldn't be, but I have always differentiated between the two, from the first time I saw ROTJ . Because Anakin became Vader when he accepted Palpatine's teachings to "save" Padme, but he didn't fully embrace the mantle until he destroyed everything he loved. Once he killed Palpatine, he became Anakin again..with no trace of Vader left. So, in that respect, to me, there is a difference.

 

That is an extremely good question

 

Yep. Big difference. One wears black and goes around killing innocent people... and the other one is Darth Vader.

 

It would be an extremely good SCENE.

But like so many cool things, if they do that too often, it quickly becomes boring. Having Vader flash out the lightsaber at all is something that has to be predicated on the dramatic needs of the story first and foremost; in other words, if you use it, use it for maximum dramatic effect or not at all. The quickest way to cheapen it would be to have him do it more than twice in the Vader spinoff film (which we don't definitively know exists yet).

 

I completely agree. Even lightsaber dueling can become boring once we see it too often (with or without Vader). Imo every duel should have lasting consequences for the protagonists.

Btw., what would you guys think about spacewalking Vader in one of the movies?

 

Good points as always Pfluegermeister, totally agree less would certainly mean more in this instance, but wasn't Darth_Pevra drawing a comparison between Vader fighting style in the OT, and then in a *possible* spin off, set earlier, showing cyborg Vader doing the acrobatics of the PT style, and then how would that sit with the fans?

*If* Vader were to appear in any spin off, I don't think I'd be averse to seeing Vader spacewalk provided it was necessary of course.

 

It would sit with me just fine; no reason it shouldn't. More accurately, I believe that Vader could indeed use his saber in flashier ways; I DON'T believe Vader could do acrobatics and flip around all over the room; his sheer size and bulky frame doing all that jazz just flies in the face of the general audience's basic understanding of physics. There was too much of that in the PT, but just because I'm not a flipper-fan, that by no means indicates Vader can't have a little more pizzazz in his fighting style; again, we just can't go overboard with the pizzazz, or it's no longer pizzazz... it's just piss.

 

Vader just needs to be in a room. And the Jedi back off.

Vader will be in Episode VII.

It's all about the money/merchandising.

JEJ is "excited" for the next chapter. I wonder why?

 

Young people have a VERY cynical view of how corporations work; regardless of whatever lapses in moral judgment certain corporate figures may have sunk to, companies do not so love money that they're going to make a product that doesn't make them money. This "it's all about the money/merchandising" applies to Lucas FAR more than it applies to the current bunch making Episode VII, and yet he gets a free pass.

 

Disney is going to make a lot of money off of Episode VII anyway, regardless of Vader being in it or not. They know, especially with the treatments provided by Lucas, Kennedy's involvement, etc., that Vader being in Episode VII would not make sense. And there is even more money to be made in the long run by not doing really illogical things with your franchise that just end up making fans mad and making everyone question your motives and your familiarity with the subject matter. Disney did not get where they are by being that foolish.

So we could go round and round about this until 2015, but saying "DISNEY LIKES $$$!!1!" does not really make for much of an argument.

The Spin-offs, however, could be a different matter. I hope they don't put Vader in them, either, but it would not be illogical if they put him in one that is set in the appropriate time and place, etc. Also, I think it will make sense to see Vader sparingly in the new Rebels TV show.

 

I am also a cynic which is why I won't say DarthVerm is wrong. It is possible they bring him back in the flesh though I hope/think that they will restrain themselves and stick to only holograms/force visions.

The spinoffs are another matter entirely. Imo whoever thinks he won't get a big part is fooling himself.

 

Lucas may have his flaws, but greed ain't one of them.