Discussion Does anyone think Darth Vader will *not* be in Episode VII?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by MiamiJedi, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Do American soldiers struggle with the temptation to join Al-Qaeda?
  2. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I would suggest that this feeling of not wanting predictability is misled in a sequel trilogy. I can understand the sentiment with the solo films, or when the story takes a huge leap forward or backward in time. As it is now, episode 7 has to make sense as a sequel to the first six movies. There may be a new villain, but it should relate to the already established themes and characters; which opens the Vader possibility. Predictability isn't necessarily a bad thing in this context.

    Also, in the comics, there have been impersonators of superman, and some of those stories I've read have been interesting.

    But when anyone makes the argument that Vader (whatever version) should play no role at all in the ST, they might as well be arguing for no new Batman films. If you recontextualize Vader or his armor in an interesting way, it could be great.

    Personally, I would be very excited by a new version of Vader. And death in the Star Wars universe is never final. We have the unnatural power of the darkside, the concept of living forever, and eternal force ghosts. Maybe you don't like this universe, but this is the universe.
    Last edited by Dra---, Jul 8, 2013
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  3. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    What does that have to do with Jedi struggling with the dark side? :confused: This is a sci-fi fantasy series we're talking about not Zero Dark Thirty. In movies like the one I just mentioned American soldiers absolutely struggle with things that are appropriate to that genre. In SW it is the dark side and if you take out that struggle the characters journey would seem pretty bland to me.
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  4. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    How about then struggling with the question of what the right thing to do is?
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  5. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
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    That's a poor analogy. The better one would be do American soliders struggle with using overly aggressive tactics or cruelty and extreme violence, or urges for power and revenge. Of course.
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  6. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 2
    Dear Lord,

    I fear that Episode 7 will turn out like Godfather 3.

    Please forgive us.

    Yours,

    Lord TW
  7. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I'd say American soldiers joining Al-Qaeda is the better analogy for Jedi becoming Sith.



    @A Chorus of Disapproval, you should be in the ST with double-posters as the villains!
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jul 8, 2013
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  8. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
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    Okay, so the force ghosts COULD be explored as a theme that flows though the trilogy of trilogies. It is a big mystery.

    But if that is the case, even more reason for Darth Vader to NOT appear.
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  9. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    That can be a part of it sure but that's not quite as personal as a person's journey to overcome the dark side especially given the family history. There are new ways the films can explore this concept now that it is known that Vader is Luke's father. Luke didn't have much time to consider this revelation in the film before he went to redeem his father so now we have the opportunity to see the impact Anakin's legacy has had not only on Luke and Leia but the next generation as well. I would hate to see that opportunity wasted.
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  10. Immortiss Force Ghost

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    Mar 10, 2013
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    Agreed. It is THEE existential theme in the SW mythology.
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  11. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
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    Do you have a reason? Or do you think restating the proposition again is enough?

    The more accurate opposition to American soldiers in regards to ideology would probably be communism. American soldiers don't necessarily have a religious POV while Al-Qaeda does.

    American soldiers also preemptively strike. Which is an act of aggression. To use American soldiers is just a bad starting point for an analogy.
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  12. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
    star 3
    ...and the eternal Force ghost is Anakin. Not Vader. And the "one" who achieved immortality, mentioned by Palpatine, was Qui-Gon (tho how HE knew about Qui-Gon was never explained, of course, just like it's never explained how Yoda knew of the Rule of Two).

    Comics are a different animal... what works in comics, like superheroes or supervillains being impersonated by others, might not play in movies.

    Predictability IS still a bad thing in the sequels. It's the idea that has led to hundreds of fans--casual or otherwise--saying they expect Luke to die in VII because Qui-Gon died in I and Obi-Wan died in IV. It's catering to the wrong kinds of fans... the fans that swore up & down back in '99/'00 that Padme WOULD die in Episode III, that she HAD to die because she wasn't in the OT. And guess what? She died. It was predictable, and completely nonsensical as it failed to connect in any logical way with Padme's ONE mention in the OT in the conversation between Luke & Leia in ROTJ about THEIR mother. "Oh, she was talking about Breha Organa even tho that makes no sense... oh, she remembered Padme thru the Force cuz she was in the womb a minute longer than Luke... oh...uh...yeah, that part of EpIII was REALLY poorly written."

    What ties all the movies together is the Skywalker legacy. Vader is a PART of that, but Vader doesn't literally have to be in every episode, as Anakin OR Vader. Anakin's story has ended... time for Skywalker descendants to take center stage.
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  13. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
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    Want to explain the point further? How do you know there's no reason?
  14. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Perhaps a better analogy would be capitalists struggling with becoming communists?
  15. Immortiss Force Ghost

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    And they will...with baggage.
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  16. Dra--- Chosen One

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    I believe you're mistaking predictability for poor execution.
  17. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
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    How about we quit the analogy? We don't need it. We already know what happens when Jedi struggle with gray areas. They risk falling to the darkside. It's the same thing, essentially. The wrong step into a gray area may lead to the darkside.
    Last edited by Dra---, Jul 8, 2013
  18. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    @Dra--- STOP DOUBLE POSTING. I DON'T WANT TO BAN PEOPLE, BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
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  19. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 2
    Because the point of the entire saga to date centers on how the dark side does NOT lead to immortality. Force ghosts = immortality. Only by renouncing the dark side, and thus the Darth Vader persona, did Anakin achieve immortality as a force ghost.

    P.S. stop double-posting, you'll get banned.

    P.P.S. I just used the edit function to add the P.S.
    Last edited by Lord TW, Jul 8, 2013
  20. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    Execution, or themes, motifs that are an integral part of the overall saga. Being unpredictable has its dilemmas, too. Be careful of what you wish for because you might not be watching a Star Wars movie in 2015. It will be so unpredictable and unrecognizable, too.
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  21. Dra--- Chosen One

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    I had no idea I've ever doubleposted on here before. My internet is acting slow; maybe that's why. Since I can't control it right now, I guess I'll stop posting for the time being.
    Sorry.
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  22. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    From our handy Guide To Better Posting:
    What is "double posting"? Double posting is when you post in a thread and then post again without someone else posting first; this is not allowed and you will be edited and warned. Listed below are quite a few ways to avoid double posting: 1. If you think of something else to say, the edit button is your friend. 2. You can tag someone to get their attention by putting @their user name. 3. To quote multiple people you can hit 'reply on a post, type your thoughts then hit reply on another post. 4. Use the quote button at the top of the reply screen. 5. Use BB code for quoting(remove the spaces): [ quote={name}]{text}[ /quote ]
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  23. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
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    That baggage doesn't have to literally be appearances by Vader, however, impostors or otherwise.

    As for internal conflict w/o the dark side... hey, Han Solo anyone? No 'risks falling to the dark side' required.

    They can absolutely have conflicts with the Jedi-type leads WITHOUT them risking a fall to the dark side in any serious way... they don't need to walk up to the edge like Luke did in ROTJ, they don't need to fall like Anakin did in ROTS... maybe the descendants simply get it right and never come close to falling, and have OTHER, different issues to struggle with. That could be refreshing. Take a break from Skywalker family members being at risk of falling to the dark side... they can always do that later in the X-XII trilogy with Luke's grandkids. If they DON'T skip a generation with that 'conflict' now, though, it'll become 'tradition' and everyone will expect every generation of Skywalkers/Solos to have to deal with the temptation throughout a chunk of each trilogy, and every other trilogy will have one fall completely to become the villain of the NEXT trilogy, etc
  24. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 2
    Jaiden Solo will NEVER be tempted to join the dark side...but he has a MEAN case of dyslexia. Mwah ha ha
  25. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    It's not about a tradition for me, it's about an essential part of the spiritual journey every Jedi must take and I don't think that should skip a generation. I don't want to see the dark side neutered for a trilogy. It should remain a real, palpable threat.