Discussion Does anyone think Darth Vader will *not* be in Episode VII?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by MiamiJedi, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    1. Anakin/Vader are major connective tissue in the saga, literal or not.
    2. Han Solo, the anti-hero, didn't believe in the force and was unable to be tempted for lack of force ability. His story is, in part, sinner to saint, but always with an edge.
    3. Selflessness vs. Selfishness are at the core of human existence and struggle. There is nothing wrong with that theme. It is how that theme is explored through relationships I.e., father/son. That could be redundant. Agreed.

    What "OTHER" problems will the protagonist(s) face? How to balance their checking accounts? It has to be a challenge core to existence. Thus mythological.

    I could envision a Vader doppelgänger or a number of the them that terrorize our heros. Not unlike the Ringwraiths in LOTR. I could see how a writer could set up a Jedi Army with force ghosts, battling an army of Sith with Anakin battling his alter ego, Vader, in some kind of epic ending to the saga. Probable? I don't know. A possible direction or at least discussion at a writers conference? Certainly.
    Last edited by Sean Sinclair, Jul 8, 2013
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  2. Sith-Mullet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2003
    star 3
    .
    Last edited by Sith-Mullet, Jul 8, 2013
  3. I_Love_Scotch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2013
    star 1
    I don't like the idea of Sith ghosts. The Sith are evil, and showing that there is an afterlife the same as that of a Jedi would undermine the whole idea of good vs. evil.
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  4. MiamiJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 1
    I disagree. There is no reason that Sith would not have an afterlife as they are also part of the great Force. Because they are "evil" is too simplistic I think. But that would be another discussion.
    But the whole Force ghost idea would be interesting to explore. I know many fans have found that aspect of the Star Wars mythos to be very intriguing.
    Darth Plagueis found the way to stop one from dying and Qui Gon uncovered the way back from death.
    So if in Star Wars land one learns to stop from dying and another finds out how to come back as a ghost, then it really too improbable that someone will uncover the secret of resurrection in physical form?
    Perhaps he comes back as a ghost that can manipulate an ancient armor that resembles the original or perhaps he comes back in the flesh via a clone and then they will find a way to get him back into the armor regardless. I wonder if there is an actor who could play Anakin...hmm.....oh wait. We have one!
    Perhaps we should have a thread called "who doesn't think Hayden Christensen will be in Episode VII?" (maybe not!)

    Here is my thinking behind the new trilogy storyline:
    I think the suits and any "discussions at a writer's conference" that occurred came up with something along the lines of the following formula:
    X+Y=Z
    where X= what images/characters would sell the most merchandise long and short term
    Y= A great story would make X plausible
    Z= Episode VII
    Darth Vader's death in Episode VI is just one more thing that the writers had to write around or through for Episode VII.
    Perhaps many of you don't remember, Lucas never intended to make Anakin into Luke's father. But when he did, he had to write around the "your father was killed by a young Jedi named Darth Vader" line. He wrote around it with the silly "certain point of view" speech from Obi Wan in Episode VI. Now I laugh out loud when I see fans apparently oblivious as to why Obi Wan would come up with the silly "certain point of view" dialogue discussing why Obi Wan would have said something like that, why would he lie to Luke. etc.!!!!!!!!
    If you disagree with my formula then you have no marketing background and are assuming that Disney is more interested in making a great Star Wars movie to make the fans happy irrespective of what will generate the most profit. Again, I'm not saying that this is a bad thing or that Disney is going to anything but great and wonderful things with Star Wars, but it is just the way it is. To ignore the reality that the highest potential profit is not the most important determining and guiding factor in the creation of the new Episodes is to remain in a blissful state of ignorance that will soon undoubtedly come to an end.
    The Disney suits and writers are aiming at the crowd that ran to Despicable Me 2 and not the aging Star Wars fan (I'm one of them) who knows who Jacen and Jaina are. (I'm sure they would not use the names like Jacen and Jaina in Episode VII just to avoid any confusion with the EU stuff that will soon be rebooted as a whole anyway.)
    My seven year old nephew is a huge Star Wars fan. His favorite character is Darth Vader. He has the toys, Halloween costume, etc. He loves Episode VI the most. He doesn't care that Vader "died" in Episode VI, he just wants to see him. In his mind, Vader is now a "good" guy because he saved Luke. Fans like my nephew are far, far more important to those constructing the next chapter in the Star Wars saga than you or me. And again, this is not bad thing. It is just reality.
    Disagree with me as you may, you (if you disagree) need to recognize Star Wars is a business above all things.
    Again, I think the story will revolve around a quest to resurrect Vader by the Solo children, in order to stop Palpatine.
    I would not be surprised if the first image we get of Episode VII is an image of Vader (in all his armored glory) just to make the fanboys go nuts.
    [face_devil]
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  5. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    [face_sigh]This thread makes me so happy that we have Michael Arndt writing these films.
  6. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    got positive reviews
  7. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
    star 3
    Yeah, I don't get what he was trying to say. I've heard nothing but great stuff about Despicable Me 2, and look forward to seeing it this weekend now that I've FINALLY watched the first one.

    He's just another "Disney's all about the Benjamins, it's all marketing marketing marketing, doesn't matter if most of the most popular characters are dead already, they'll write 'em back in!" guy full of a lot of bad predictions/ideas for the future of Star Wars. Another guy with similar views predicted that Han, Luke, and Leia would be the MAIN CHARACTERS of Episode VII in recent months, because Disney wants to bet on a sure thing & nostalgia, and while new characters would be introduced, they'd only be supporting characters to be explored in later movies. 8-}
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  8. ConnorLovesPadme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2013
    He also screen wrote Toy Story 3 aswell which was also a huge success.
  9. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
    star 3
    I think you quoted the wrong post... neither darklordoftech, MiamiJedi or I were talking about Arndt.
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  10. ConnorLovesPadme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2013
    I'm just telling you in general that it was a success am I not allowed to? Since you we're all going on about how much Despicible Me 2 had positive reviews.
    Last edited by ConnorLovesPadme, Jul 9, 2013
  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I am not sure what this has to do with anything. If an executive tells him to bring back Darth Vader he will concoct some hollywood-esque way to do it.
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  12. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Simply put my post meant that I'm quite confident that Michael Arndt would never agree to write something as ridiculous as resurrecting Darth Vader.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Jul 9, 2013
  13. ConnorLovesPadme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Fully agree, totally wrong move in a Vader return.
  14. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    @Darth Chiznuk
    I very much doubt that. He is described as a very methodical writer who likes to analyze movies for their "success formula" and that is all well and good. However, it also tells me, that writing for him doesn't result from "a stroke of genius" so much as simple workmanship and pragmatism. Therefore, if he gets the task to write Vader into it, he will probably just see it as a job.

    Edit: I don't think Vader is in but Arndt would probably not be an obstacle for the executives if they wanted to change the plot.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Jul 9, 2013
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  15. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Quoting a post implies that you are responding specifically to that post.
  16. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
    star 3
    Your comment seemed outta place, a non sequitur to what the quoted posts were discussing.. Darth Chiznuk mentioned Arndt. MiamiJedi seemed to disparage Despicable Me 2 for some reason, in an unrelated post, which is why darklordoftech & I were responding about it being looked at as a good movie... Despicable Me 2 has NOTHING to do with Arndt/TS3, so I figured you must have quoted the wrong posts. What you did was the equivalent of walking up to three people discussing Raiders of the Lost Ark and saying "Stand By Me is a good movie."
  17. ConnorLovesPadme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Got mixed up with the whole Ardnt thing. I apologise.
    Last edited by ConnorLovesPadme, Jul 9, 2013
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  18. ConnorLovesPadme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2013
    I apologise I was getting mixed up with another Ardnt movie, sorry about that. Hahaha didn't read before I commented. As again apologies.
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  19. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
  20. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    You're 'quite confident' and 'ridiculous' comments have no bearing on the question. Unless you are Michael Arndt or know him personally I find it ridiculous that you would even make such a comment. You don't like the idea. That's fine, but don't be condescending about it.

    Going by what I know (which isn't much): George's style, the themes, the motifs, films/stories with similarities (LOTR) the general mythology of Star Wars, I can entertain what might or could be thrown up on the screen. And that's kind of fun. I could care less about the motivation of Disney. I'm interested in story. The story is the only thing that matters. If it's great with Salacious Crumb in it, fantastic, but I don't want to see the movie because Mr. Crumb is featured. Same goes for Vader. I have never advocated a literal resurrection of Vader or Palpatine or Palpatine's offspring, because in the parameters of my mind, that might be a bit over the top. But, I can't criticize it too harshly without seeing it in the context of the story. It might be fantastic.

    The suit, again, in my opinion, has a profound psychological relationship to our heroes, the citizens of the galaxy and to the saga as a whole (the viewers). The suit, in my mind does not represent a personal failure, it represents terror and fear to the citizens who lived with it for nearly a generation and it represents a stain on the Skywalker family legacy. It is both a personal and a public problem.

    All the... 'I want it to be original and new' is fine, but only within the context of the SW mythology. It needs to go forward, yet harken back. It may introduce new ideas and different relationships, but always return to the 'heart' of the saga. It must have good and evil, family, friendship, sacrifice, redemption, love or The Force, and maintain these themes throughout or it will not look or feel like Star Wars. 'There is nothing new under the sun'. This is particularly relevant to SW. These themes are the reason we're here discussing the ST and why many were disappointed with the prequels. I credit GL and the OT for giving us a universal story.
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  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Vader sort of has a phoenix from the ashes theme going on as well. He was one inch away from dying in ROTS but he was reborn as man/machine and became more powerful than ever. But if he is reborn in the ST I hope it is in a subtle and more metaphorical manner. Maybe the villain wants to emulate Vader in a certain way or as someone else mentioned there could even be a cult about Vader.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Jul 9, 2013
  22. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I wasn't trying to be condescending at all just giving my opinion like everyone else. Darth_Pevra asked what my post had to do with the thread and I tried to answer. My comments to her weren't directed at you or anyone else but at the idea of Vader being resurrected. Yes, I find it a ridiculous idea and I don't think Arndt would ever come on board if that was a requirement. I stand by those comments. If you feel differently that's fine but we'll just have to agree to disagree. However, if my comments offended anyone then I really do apologize.
  23. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 2
    I had mentioned the cult idea. Look at modern times...there are freaking neo-Nazis out there.

    Recall, that Obi-Wan failed in not watching Anakin/Vader to his death on Mustafar. Then he came back. Accordingly, in ROTJ, Luke watched him to his death...the full burn. It's one of those mirroring things George had mentioned. So it's unlikely he resurrects.
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  24. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    The subtext of your post was that the ideas of some people on this thread are ridiculous. I don't think it's kind to call honest opinions 'ridiculous'. It's not in good spirit. If that's your opinion, fine, but don't ridicule other people's thoughts, unless in honest and clear jest. It makes one think that you believe you know better. I like most, if not all of your posts on the boards. You seem like a great guy to me. Normally you are a super positive personality. It seemed a bit out of character, that's all. Agree to disagree is fine.
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  25. LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2002
    star 4
    Vader won't be back but I am putting $50 on Darth Sidious coming back - he didn't die on screen.
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