Lit Does Darth Caedus suck as a villain?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Slowpokeking, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Caedus, I think let someone from the Skywalker/Solo family became Sith is not a bad idea. However I really don't like how they built Caedus up. He wasn't a real Sith compare to most of the Sith Lord, more likely used the name Sith and do his stuff. Also the whole crisis went over way too quickly, there really could be more death and struggle.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 1, 2014
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  2. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Darth Caedus is one of the three characters I hate most, the other two being IG-88 (in the EU) and Vitiate.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jan 1, 2014
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  3. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Darth Vader II and being a poor villain go together like peanut butter and jelly.
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  4. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
  5. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
  6. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Its brains haven't quite spilt yet. So yes. :p

    But yeah, there's really no point anymore–everyone knows he's an awful villain and there's no real reason for topics like this.
  7. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I'm actually inclined to say he doesn't - or, more precisely, that when viewed in context of the many things wrong with LOTF, his specific performance as a villain doesn't stand out as worse than the rest.
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  8. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    I think he could have been done fine, but the whole story was just meh.
  9. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Which Darth Caedus are we talking about?
  10. Contessa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2013
    star 2
    Uh...haha...is this a serious question? Yes, Caedus was a terrible villain, mainly because Jacen should *never* have been a villain. It just doesn't work.

    Other than that, let me just quote this too:
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  11. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    The problem with Darth Caedus is this:

    Would Legacy of the Force have been an acceptable storyline if it took place coming out of Return of the Jedi, with Luke replacing Jacen and Leia replacing Jaina? Would it have been acceptable for Luke to be Darth Caedus? Why not?

    There's your answer.
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  12. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    Even as someone who doesn't loath LOTF as much as most others on here, yes. The deciion was poor, the plotting was worse.

    The idea of a Skywalker falling to the dark side has been done already (Vader AND Luke), and while I applaud Jacen trying to learn about all force traditions (including the Sith), he should never have become one. There's no logical premise for it, and there was none created during it or after that makes any remote sense.

    The only thing about the entire affair that I do approve of somewhat was the idea to kill Caedus, not because I wouldn't love to have more Jacen novels, but because IMHO not everyone who falls to the dark side should be redeemable. But we should never have been in that position with Jacen in the first place.
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  13. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

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    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    not everyone who falls to the dark side should be redeemable.

    People with such views make me despair. No one should be deemed as unredeemable. I liked Jacen pretty well before this arc. I think the whole handling of him as a SIth was poor as was his sister murdering him. Murder isn't right, I don't care who you are. Only God has that right.
    Last edited by Dooku-Darklighter, Jan 1, 2014
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  14. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

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    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    No argument, the handling of Jacen as anything to do with a sith was probably the worst handled thing in the entirety of the EU.

    But sometimes a person is unquestionably irredemable. And there's plenty of real-life examples, Hitler and Stallin being the most well known. I'm not saying that that was the case with Jacen, completely the opposite.

    But the general concept that everyone deserves a second chance no matter what ill they've done is something that is so unrealistic that it disgusts me. By that logic Luke should have tried to redeem Palpatine and he should have been elected as the Chief of State.

    Redemption is a central concept of Star Wars, always has been, always will be. And its important in real life too. But that doesn't mean that it applies in every single situation.
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  15. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5

    wait what
  16. Ghost Chosen One

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    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    There's a difference between a person not being redeemable, and not being redeemed.

    Everyone can be redeemed, but not everyone is (at least in Star Wars).
  17. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Caedus had potential. Not much, but it was there. Part of the problem is that he was undermined by the writing at every turn. He was never much of a viable threat to the heroes. And then a random background character had a dead-to-rights shot on him and didn't take it cuz reasons. Really diminished him as a villain.
  18. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2007
    star 4
    It's not that they shouldn't be redeemable, it's that turning to the dark side needs to be considered something serious and extremely spiritually dangerous, and redeeming them too easily or often just removes the gravity of it.

    And Jaina didn't murder him, he was gone before that. Jaina was just the final nail in the coffin.
  19. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    People generally don't get redeemed that turn to the dark side because they turn to the dark side because they're already bad people. Good people don't turn to the dark side, because they're good. Which is why Jacen turning to the dark side is a joke.
  20. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    I disagree with you both and with that I depart. *Bows and wheels away*
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  21. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    That statement is true, some people are way beyond redemption, trying to redeem, or even show sympathy would only damn yourself.
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  22. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

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    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Caedus could have been a good villian, had he been developed more naturally. Jacen had that pure moment at the end of the NJO and was searching to reach that point again, and could have grown naturally from that point where he grows in the Force and slowly reaches the point of C'Baoth, where he sees himself above the "little people" and thinks he knows what is best, interpreting the will of the Force. But flowwalking, 5 year time jumps, and the fact that Denning, Traviss, and Allston did not work well together resulted in a rehash of the PT, with Caedus becoming less a character and more a plot device.
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  23. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I like this idea that enlightenment leads to evil.

    Seriously, can someone explain to me how seeking to achieve unity with the universe again somehow leads you to doing bad stuff?

    Do Buddhist monks go off and do evil stuff to achieve enlightenment? Because they're so greedy for wanting nirvana? They'll do ANYTHING to reach it.

    I'm not really comfortable with this idea equating a realization of oneness with the universe with some sort of a drug high, and Jacen being addicted to Force heroin driving him to become a Sith Lord chasing the star dragon.

    I think Jacen would know that running the Space Gestapo isn't the path to reaching that sense of unity again.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Jan 1, 2014
  24. Team Padme Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I don't hate LOTF as much as the others do but it could've been handled and done a lot better. LOTF had a lot of potential, why did I start the EU with reading that series? I should've made sure first off.
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  25. Contessa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2013
    star 2
    Clearly you're taking this stuff way too seriously, and you should know that Star Wars isn't about intelligent concepts or asking important questions. Cheap scifi isn't for examining the plight of Buddhists, and you can't impugn the unassailable honor of a cheap scifi universe by looking for logical parallels.

    I just thought I'd say that sarcastically and get it out of the way before someone tries to drop something like that with a straight face.
    Last edited by Contessa, Jan 1, 2014