Lit Does Darth Caedus suck as a villain?

And to be honest, you don't need to be super-preachy in order to have or want a story where violence isn't the best solution. Some conflicts end in a giant explosion and some end with people coming to a negotiation table.

 

While most things in Star Wars are solved with "aggressive negotiations" and shooting first ( ) , not everything ended up like that. For instance, instead of Luke simply killing Vader and then moving on to fighting the Emperor, Luke appealed to the last shred of decency in his father and it worked, redeeming Vader. Even the NJO had a few elements of that, with a good deal of the Vong surrendering at the end instead of fighting to the last person.

I still love the Hand of Thrawn duology for showing what happened to a galaxy that had temporarily united against the Empire now settling back down into old feuds. Although things weren't going great, until the major crisis hit things hadn't quite fallen apart yet. Its not like the galaxy was constantly at full scale war before the rise of the Empire. Even the NJO had to introduce an enemy from a whole other galaxy since the Empire had been reduced to a mere fraction of its strength. LotF couldn't even bother with that so instead just had the galaxy fight itself.

I won't try to go into comparisons (I doubt I know enough to come up with any accurate political analogies, though real life politics have had plenty of stupid moments, that's just how people are), but there were some possibly interesting issues in the early clash between the GA and Corellia. Neither side was right, but Corellia rearming Centerpoint was probably the worse thing to do. The fact that Thracken Sal-Solo was in charge again was just depressing (he must have had some really good PR people, compared to the Jedi).

The really sad thing is way back in Betrayal, before Jacen started listening to Lumiya, there was a peace conference, and both sides were starting to maybe start reaching a compromise. Then Lumiya killed enough important people to start the war back up. And while a later book (Exile I think) mentioned that the causes of the war were natural, resulting from built up tensions, the series skipped over how most of the critical moments that really escalated the war (the invasion of Tralus, assasination of Corellia's earlier leader, Commenor jumping into the war) were all due to Lumiya's direct actions. Although Jacen's blunt-force approach didn't help at all. Who needs enemies when he quickly made everybody hate him?

It was such a turnaround from his approach in NJO, but then that arrogance of Jacen's was still somewhat the same. The Emperor and Vader could get away with brute force and terror, they already ruled most of the known galaxy and had overwhelming strength (resources, Force power, etc.) in all situations. And both were skilled manipulators. Jacen's only approach to everything was keep attacking until they surrendered or were dead... and on at least one occasion still kept firing even after Fondor surrendered. The Vong showed more intelligence when they were settling into ruling the galaxy. But then Jacen had a secret police army who could do anything so he just skipped over the decades Palpatine spent building up his absolute power, when instead one mind trick to a random committee could have made him dictator for life much earlier.

The Confederation was a really bad joke by the end (they really couldn't have come up with any other name? Then again, TCW has been moving away from bothering to use the Confederacy name, probably too many syllables for that cartoon, just like Mon Calamari was shortened to Mon Cala), even Corellian Confederation would have at least made it a bit more distinctive. When they swept all the random unfinished plots under the carpet at the end of Invincible, I had hoped the Confederation was done with, but no, FotJ dug up that rotting plot and dragged it out even more (since FotJ's plot was even more minimal than LotF's, so they needed all the filler they could get).

I doubt this was a real reason, but sometimes its seems like the basis of a lot of Del Rey's plots is "How do we make the Jedi suffer?" and not only having Jacen fall but also making the Jedi look bad and ushering in an utterly ridiculous (and improbable) choice for Chief of State, who is also rabidly anti-Jedi (despite not even acting like that only one book earlier, from Revelation to Invincible's ending) was the main point. Which would be really depressing, but well, Jacen's ruin does perfectly symbolize the post-NJO novels though, not that that's necessarily a good thing.

 

I was referring to Latin America, should've been more clear.

 

Or the Force...

 

Talk about thread necromancy...

 

Pleas, it was not even mostly dead.

 

Now mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, there's only one thing you can do ... go through the thread and look for likable posts

 

They really need to split the literature forum into three sections. New Universe, Legends Universe (good stuff) , Legends Universe (00s garbage)

 

Except there's a whole load of excellent material in your 3rd category, it's just eclipsed by the bloated Dennigverse moon.

Wait... That's no moon.....

 

... a.k.a. Enthusiasm, Whining, and In-Jokes.

 

Gentlemem, please. It is not necessary to be "the son of the devil" to be a Sith (like Sidious). Just as Plagueis said in his novel: " But Ashla is a perversion,” he went on, “for the dark has always preceded the light. The original idea was to capture the power of the Force and make it subservient to the will of sentient life ". And the Jedi Way, such that it is demonstrated in "Rise of the Empire Era", more specifically in "The Dark Lord Trilogy", teaches us that it is the Force that uses the Jedi and not the opposite. In fact, Matthew Stover, by writing "Revenge of the Sith", wanted to show to the readers that the force-sensitive who wants to use his powers is faced with two choices: follow the Force or follow the dark side. Obi-wan was the incarnation of the ultimate Jedi: sweet, attentive, seeking to help the other without waiting for something in return, and serving the Force without dark thoughts. As for Anakin, it was the passion, adventure and the taste of the risk which he liked. This is not a bad thing (Han has much in common with Anakin) but the problem is that it he is a force-sensitive and moreover a Jedi (a dedicated servant of the Force) so that to use the power of the Force while neglecting his knowledge and his wisdom exposes the sentient to the temptations of the Dark Side. And that is what happened.

For my part, NJO (the order and not the books) has failed in its mission. Certainly, the Vong were defeated but they have lost their allegiance to the Force just as OJO had lost it during the thousand years of peace. Deviating from the philosophy taught by obi-wan and Yoda (The Living Force) and marrying that of Vergere (The Unifying Force), NJO started slowly but surely their doom (see Legacy Comics). In fact, LF placed the Jedi as servants, instruments of the Force in the galaxy while UF made them as if they were "The Force" itself. As indicated in The Joiner King, dialog between Jacen and Akanah : " You have the same power I once sensed in your uncle Luke, but without the light. You must not leave before you have found some.”
Jacen was stung by her harsh assessment, but hardly surprised. The war against the Yuuzhan Vong had brought the Jedi a deeper understanding of the Force—one that no longer saw light and dark as opposing sides—and he had known before he came that the Fallanassi might find this new view disturbing. That was why he had hid it from them…or thought he had.
“I’m sorry you disapprove,” Jacen said. “But I no longer view the Force in terms of light and dark. It embraces more than that.”
“Yes, we have heard about this ‘new’ knowledge of the Jedi.” Akanah’s tone was scornful. “And it troubles my heart to see that their folly now rivals their arrogance.”
“Folly?” Jacen did not want to argue, but—being one of the first advocates of the new understanding—he felt compelled to defend his views. “That ‘folly’ helped us win the war.”
“At what price, Jacen?” Akanah’s voice remained gentle. “If the Jedi no longer look to the light, how can they serve it?”
“Jedi serve the Force,” Jacen said. “The Force encompasses both light and dark.”
“So now you are beyond light and dark?” Akanah asked. “Beyond good and evil?”
“I’m no longer an active Jedi Knight,” Jacen answered, “but yes.”
“And you do not understand the folly in that?” As Akanah spoke, her gaze seemed to grow deeper and darker. “The arrogance?”
What Jacen understood was that the Fallanassi had a rather narrow and rigid view of morality, but he did not say so. The call was continuing to pull at him inside, urging him to be on his way, and the last thing he wanted to do now was waste time in a debate that would change no one’s mind.
“The Jedi serve only themselves,” Akanah continued. “They are pompous enough to believe they can use the Force instead of submitting to it, and in this pride they have caused more suffering than they have prevented. With no light to guide you, Jacen, and the power I sense in you, I fear you will cause even more.”
The frank words struck Jacen like a blow, less because of their harshness than because of the genuine concern he sensed behind them. Akanah truly feared for him, truly feared that he would become an even greater monster than had his grandfather, Darth Vader.
“Akanah, I appreciate your concern.” Jacen reached for her hands and found himself holding only empty air. He resisted the temptation to find her real body in the Force; Adepts of the White Current considered such acts intrusions just short of violence. “But I won’t find my light here. I have to go.”
We knew very well what Vergere wanted to make to Jacen and we knew that we could not trust her. We also knew that little by little, Jacen would fall to the Dark Side; then the result should not have surprised us? I think that the idea was good but this is the way of the exploit it which leaves to be desired.

Thank you for reading me.

 

You're wrong man, the main moral is to let the Force decide if someone is redeemable or not.

 

I agree in part. I think it also is about maintaining faith that redemption is possible for all.

 

i agree, yet Sith that are steeped in the dark side for a long time are an exception imo.

 

zompusbite, if DNT and the rest of the post-NJO wasn't garbage based on Denning's delusional interpretations of Traitor and The Unifying Force, that assessment might actually be accurate.

 

Honestly, I'm so over the whole LOTF-FOTJ thing. Yeah, they're bloody awful, for the most part. But I'm ready to move past that, personally.

 

We have no choice but to move on. I only hope the future is bright.... So far not sure

 

Well if TCW is any indication there will be some really good stuff, some really bad stuff and a bunch in-between. So pretty much the same as before.

and the occasional great stuff. (Looking at you A New Dawn.)

 

The Force is a metaphor. The Force isn't real.

 

We cant go to reality when talking about a story, I think it was wrong to kill Caedus, even Mara Jade felt it was wrong of her to try to kill Caedus. He was no different then Vader in Fact he wasn't even completely Sith. Caedus holstered his lightsaber and Jania attack him, parallel ( Luke lowers his lightSaber and Vader attacks him, (It is unwise to lower your defenses) Yoda says. "A jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack" When Jason lowered his weapon Jania should have offered him to surrender. Of course the Jedi would have executed him, but that is not the point. The story writers should have ended that differently.

Let us Compare Caedus, Vader, and Palpatine.
VADER: Vader hunted down and wiped out the Jedi after attacking the Jedi temple and killing every Jedi there, including kids. He supported the Monster Wilhuff Tarkin who destroyed Alderann. So not only was Vader a murder but Genocidal and a Sith, none of these crimes bothered him, but could not personally kill his son. Luke said that was good in him and was worthy of redemption.
PALPATINE: Darth Sidious who's master was Darth Plagueis, his sith sacrifice was killing his whole family. He was worst then Vader, he didnt have any good in him what so ever. He was worst then Genocidal, killing and destroying and enslaving the Galaxy was first nature to him. Plus he was no longer human he had become demonic in appearance and nature.
Caedus did have good in him, plus he was a terrible sith, being evil was not first nature for him. He was a Dark Jedi, that is what he was.

 

Yes. It was stupid back then, stupid now and will continue to be stupid for many, many years to come. To say it was a waste is ye old 'water is wet'. Him turning Dark Side was badly-handled, unnecessary and a plain dumb decision.

 

I feel like LOTF and Caedus is going to be one of those things like Nazism where now that the EU is over, much like World War 2, pretty much everyone is in agreement it was a really bad idea.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: to the extent that this storyline was accepted after it ended, it mostly was because people felt obliged to do so since this was how "canon" would proceed from now on. Now that it's not, nobody's going to feel a reason to defend it.

 

You mean what LOTF wanted to make Vergere into. She was never, ever intended as a Sith up until LOTF writers decided to make everything black and white again, while still somehow maintaining a shade of grey even though they breached said shade. Boggles your mind, doesn't it? Well, that's LOTF for you.

He would've been better off as just being a Dark Jedi honestly. Like he takes up Lumiya's teachings but with a grain of salt as he did every other Force group's teachings and adapt them to himself. They could've still kept him as Jacen Solo like that.