Saga Does Democracy work in a Galaxy Far, Far Away? So much squabbling!! They need someone wise!

I am paying attention to what is said, I posted it. Yes, it's blackmail, no, it's not saying they'll attack. It's exactly as I said above.

And the Republic/Empire did that.

 

The Empire is not the Republic, hence why there's a change. And yes, it's saying they'll attack. What do you think the Jedi would be overwhelmed of? Awe?

 

I think the Republic is corrupt and make a lot of bad decisions, but it's obvious the Separatist were getting ready for War. The Count was supposed to make a war, in order to kill Jedi and make Palpatine Emperor.

 

The Republic conquered the Separatist worlds that broke away. That's the point of the Clone Wars.

No, it's not saying they'll attack. It's saying the Jedi will be overwhelmed, they'll know they can't overpower so many droids, so the Republic will sue for peace. The Republic will agree to their demands. It's literally right there in the dialogue.

 

And that's what happened? Right?

Don't forget. There was a very public discussion going on about the Republic approving militarization BEFORE the droid army was discovered. So, it was only justified that the Separatists prepared for this with a droid army. The Separatist fears were realized when this Grand Army did attack them.

 

You guys realize that it's just like the American Civil War, right?
Just answer
Did the South have the "right" to secede?
Was the North "Imperialist" when they stopped South seceding by military Force?

 

The point of the Clone Wars is to protect the Republic from the Separatist threat. Not to conquer territory. Which worlds did the Republic 'conquer'? None. That happens after, during the Empire, when democracy no longer applies.

Of course not, they'll just overwhelm them with awe...

Once they attack and overwhelm them, the Republic will agree. That's the whole point of attacking and making the ultimatum against it.

 

Exactly.

You didn't understand this part of the Prequel Trilogy. It's right there in the dialogue and you don't see it.

Also, the Republic conquered all Separatist territory. That's what won the Clone Wars. Occupying the Separatist worlds and defeating their military.

And Palpatine himself says it's merely a name change by the time of ROTS, that it was already an empire in all but name.

 

Then show it. But you can't because it's not there.

What "won" was the disablement of the droid army. That's what ended the conflict.

No, it wasn't otherwise there wouldn't be any need of a reorganization. Only when Palpatine didn't keep his promise to give up the emergency powers did it became an Empire in all but name.

 

Legally it's ambiguous, morally it's also ambiguous but I have to say more likely yes.

In a bit of an interesting parallel, the North technically wasn't using force to stop the secession in itself but to stop it because the South had used force against the federal government first.

 

Quote. Which one didn't I understand? The relevant one I've already posted to corroborate my point.

 

The Republic drove them off worlds that didn't wish the Separatists presence. Such as Kashyyyk, which wasn't separating. Or Utapau. Or Onderon. Toydaria. Christophsis. Ryloth. Last I checked, those weren't worlds that wanted to separate from the Republic. Those were worlds that were being taken by force and asked for help from the Republic.

Yeah, I don't think so. There's going to be shots fired because the Jedi aren't just going to roll right over and surrender, even in the face of overwhelming odds. You know that. Mace even said that he won't surrender and become hostages. The Jedi wouldn't have engaged all those Battle Droids, Super Battle Droids and Droidekas, before Yoda arrived. You're really being naive here.

 

Are you talking about the scene where the Separatists just captured
one Jedi spy
two Republic saboteurs

and a bunch of Jedi came in sabers a swinging in a military extraction of the three aggressors?

Republic was the aggressor there. No way to spin it. Just play that scene out with two nations today and how the world would describe it.

North Korea was caught spying and committing espionage deep in the heart of South Korea. Then North Korea sent in an extraction team that essentially killed everything in their path. Even beheaded a top ranking South Korean in the process. The extraction would have failed had not the entire North Korean army invaded trying to disable the entire military infrastructure of South Korea.

Damn. Those South Koreans sure are warmongers.

 

Umbara.

Tens of thousands of worlds joined the Separatists. They were forced back into the Republic under occupation, which then became permanent occupation when it became the Empire.

The Jedi were there engaging those Battle Droids to begin with. You're defeating your own point here.

But again, I've had enough of this. You two still don't see this clearly.

 

I didn't say that the Republic wasn't the aggressor. But that doesn't mean that the Confederacy wasn't going to attack the Republic first. Dooku said that was going to happen. The Jedi went to Geonosis to prevent an attack on the Republic and spare countless lives and needless destruction. Not to mention that Nute Gunray hired Jango Fett to kill Senator Amidala, which could be perceived as an act of war.

What Ghost is trying to say is that the Jedi are like that scene in "Stripes", where they just surrender without fighting. They're just going to hand over the Lightsabers because they see a large army.

The point is that the Separatists were just as guilty.

That's because you know that your argument is flawed. The Jedi would fight any attack that comes to Coruscant. They're not just going to stop fighting and piss their pants at the sight of a large fleet of ships and a massive Droid Army. They're going to fight to the death first.

 

Democracy works when it is designed to move slowly. When power is divided to stop the will of mob rule. Especially when that democracy is a Republic.

Democracy broke down when one branch voted to grant unilateral and unchecked power to the other branch.

 

Don't put words in my mouth like that.

And I have no idea where you even got that from. Or why you think I'd think that.

The Separatists weren't planning on attacking Coruscant. They wanted to use their army as a bargaining chip, as the dialogue states.

 

And again this ignores that the Jedi won't just step aside and do nothing. The Senate will want the Jedi to do their job and the Jedi will. Not to mention we're dealing with two Sith Lords and Grievous, who are in charge of the war. You really don't think that they won't attack? Not to mention that everyone in the Republic believes that they're going to attack. Obi-wan did, which is why he told the Council about the Droid Army and the formation of the Confederacy. It's why they brought it to the Chancellor and key senators. Bail believed it. Ask Aak believed it. Are they wrong?

And being overwhelmed means that there is an attack coming.

 

"Republic saboteurs"? What version of the movie is that?

If someone points a cannon at my house and lights the fuse, does it make me the aggressor if I go stop that person?

 

It did for a thousand years before the Sith stuck their dirty noses into it.

 

Eh, it was rotting from the inside out earlier than that.

 

"Hands up. Don't shoot , errr, swing!!! I'm just a factory worker. What are you doing in here? Why are you destroying everything?"

What version of the movie was that? Or were you referring to this cannon:


Those are Republic cannons at a Separatist house. They aren't just pointing either.

 

What are you even arguing?

"The Republic was fearmongering to justify war, and the Senate was going to order the Jedi to attack no matter what, so of course the Republic weren't the aggressors!" Really??

And no, the Republic didn't know the Separatists (and themselves) were led by Sith, and Grievous wasn't yet introduced or his reputation known. And Obi-wan did not bring news that the Confederacy were ready to attack, just that they had allied with the megacorporations.