PT Does Episode:VII help you appreciate the PT?.

This is such an astute observation. I have always felt that was the case. George loved the lore and the eastern mythology of yin and yang and symbiosis etc etc.

Fans loved the space western and explosions.

Both are great, but in different ways.

 

This is such an astute observation. I have always felt that was the case. George loved the lore and the eastern mythology of yin and yang and symbiosis etc etc.

Fans loved the space western and explosions.

Both are great, but in different ways.

 

This is an incredibly astute observation in my opinion. Thanks.

 

I already loved the PT anyway but it did cause me to have some odd feelings I couldn't explain about things I thought I disliked in the PT, but learned they weren't all that bad.

For example - what is the political status of the galaxy in TFA? Who the hell are the First Order? Why is the New Republic supporting the resistance, rather than being he resistance? Just what in the hell is going on?

I got kinda worn out with the politics of the PT, but then realized it was better than not knowing what was happening.

Most of all though, I had this weird sense of the PT being the established Star Wars which is funny because I remember feeling odd about the prequels for a number of years as though they were titled Star Wars, but weren't yet part of my own personal canon. I felt that way about TFA. I know it exists, but I haven't accepted it yet and I realized while watching it just how much I had accepted and embraced the prequels.

 

After watching TFA, I personally loved it even with its flaws and recycling, I've been reinvigorated to rewatch the PT. My gf watched the OT for the first time leading up to TFA and loved all of it.

I haven't watched the PT in a long time and I'm eager to revisit them. I've always had issues with the PT, mostly stuff that was too much aimed at children/kids, but they also have their great moments of SW lore. So I am eager to revisit these movies again and look at them from the perspective of the seven movie saga so far. It gets bashed quite a bit on these boards, and I don't want to get into an argument, but I do believe TFA itself was a great way to reinvigorate the SW universe and get life long fans, like myself, to fall in love with it again and embrace it all over again.

 

It kinda did make me appreciate the prequels more. I think all of the movies have different strengths and weaknesses, and sometimes I feel that it’s easy to get so distracted by the flaws of the prequels that you forget the strengths they did have, and TFA reminded me of those strengths.

I never hated the prequels (and actually I love ROTS); I was just always frustrated with them. They have some really good parts, and there are glimpses of something amazing in them, but imo there are so many problems with the execution that they aren’t anywhere near as good as they could have been. There are some really good ideas and concepts behind them, but the movies just don’t always succeed in communicating those concepts well.

I feel it’s kinda the opposite with TFA. I think it’s a good, solid, entertaining movie written and directed by someone who’s competent at their job. It manages to tell the story it set out to tell, imo. But I also feel like the story just isn’t all that interesting. I mean, plotwise it’s pretty much a rehash of ANH. It’s not a bad thing necessarily, but it was a very safe choice. I know many of the choices Lucas made with the prequels were controversial, but at least he took some risks and tried to do something different, and I can appreciate that. In some ways TFA feels like it’s catering to the wishes of the fans who hated the prequels. Again, it’s not necessarily a bad thing to make a movie you believe fans will like, but it’s a very different choice to do that instead of telling the story you want to tell regardless of how the long-time fans might feel about it.

And, I don’t know, even though I enjoyed TFA very much, for me it lacks that special something that episodes I-VI have. I don’t know what it is, but there was always something about the SW movies that made them feel different and special, whereas TFA kinda feels like a good action movie that just happens to take place in the SW universe.

 

Fans would like? More like The Original Star Wars fans would like. I always hated when some fans put us all the same boat, when they seems to ignore that the Prequels have fans as well. TFA is nothing more than fanservices for the Original Star Wars fans, the universe was completely dumbed down, compared with the prequels, were they actually explained things and how to the universe works, and not actually tiny pieces of that universe.

And you need to add. Where the First Order get their money? They have supporters in the New Republic? If they do. Who they are? Who is running things? And you are right, the New Republic must have ships and soldiers. Why they aren't fighting the First Order? If it was Lucas directing this, he would answer most of our questions and only leaving the important ones vague so we could catch up in the next movie, but TFA doesn't does this, this movie is the Bay version of Star Wars.

 

Yes it does for me. Kind of what DrDre said!!!

 

Interesting observations you make all around. This is completely anecdotal, but most of the people I see really hating on the prequels are Generation X and are forty years old and above. They saw Star Wars (the original) in the theater and then ESB and ROTJ. They have this possessive mania about it that Lucas messed with "their" Star Wars and so they hate the PT.

In contrast, most people 35 or younger seem to fall into two camps: those that LOVE the PT and those that are kind of "meh" about them. I have yet, in my actual life off of the Internet, to meet someone under 35 who HATES the PT.

So for me even though I have no polling data or anything, TFA was made for old Star Wars fans who still obsess over the purity of the OT (I love the OT too for different reasons.)

So when you say TFA was for "Star Wars fans" I think that's generally a fair statement for the common moviegoer, but not for people under 35 who really love the PT, and there are many many of us.

Another observation you made was SPOT ON! My first reaction the first time I saw TFA was "this movie is the exact opposite of Revenge of the Sith." My friend who was with me said "I thought you liked Revenge of the Sith..."

I do love ROTS and TFA, but thy are opposites in every single way.

One is dark and brooding, one is fun and a bit campy.
One has an incredible and unique plot, the other is a predictable rehash.
One is a tragedy where the main character fails big time, the other has a Mary Sue.
One has kinda bad acting, the other has impeccable acting.
One has below average dialogue, the other has snappy / clever dialogue.

I fell like I could keep going, but you get the point.

I really appreciated the plot of the PT coming out of TFA. The plot is truly disappointing, especially when you start to think about it more. How good would that movie have really been without Han Solo? Think about it like that. Without the use of the established character everyone loves and the exploitation of the nostalgia surrounding him, would we really have enjoyed that movie half as much? I don't know but I doubt it.

 

I'm one of the old generation, and for me disliking the PT has nothing to do with GL messing with the OT. I liked the SE for the most part, when they were released in the theatre, even though I preferred the originals. I did think GL went too far with the changes in subsequent years, and certainly took offense to him refusing to release the OOT, other than a poor quality bonus disc, and refusing to acknowledge it's historical signifance. As far as the PT goes, I simply didn't think it was very good, just mediocre, with some good sequences, except for AOTC, which has scenes that I would qualify as extremely bad. In the end I felt it didn't live up to the backstory as told in the OT, which is why I don't like it. I also felt GL was more interested in the new technology, than creating a set of films that fit in stylistically with his previous work, to such an extend, that I have trouble viewing them as taking place in the same universe. I really liked TFA, and was happy that, despite not being flawless, it felt like it fit in the same universe as OT.

 

I think that’s a good point, and I guess I should clarify that I don’t mean that TFA is what I think all SW fans want from a new SW movie, I said that I got the feeling TFA tried to cater to those fans who hate the prequels. I know that’s definitely not all SW fans! Personally, I’m one of those people under 35 who love the PT. Or, I guess I have somewhat mixed feelings and I’m frustrated with the PT movies because I don’t think they’re as good as they could have been, but I would still say I love them, flaws and all.

 

Let me begin by apologizing briefly. I mischaracterized what I was trying to say and used broad strokes when I shouldn't have. Please allow me to clarify. Not everyone who DISLIKES the PT and who saw the OT in theaters is possessive about Star Wars etc. I didn't mean to say that. But in my experience, the people who are extremely vocal and HATE the PT with such a passion that they are still out, almost twenty years after TPM, still attacking Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd, those people tend to be 35 and older and have a possessive obsession with the OT.

This is not to say, however, that everyone over 35 who dislikes the PT is being unfair or unjust. The PT in my view was just a different trilogy with a different purpose, different artistic goals, and a different style than the OT. I completely understand people who say "ya know, it just isn't my thing. I think they could have been better and were seriously flawed." I get it. I disagree and I love the PT, but I completely understand the position and appreciate the reasoning.

So I am sorry for not being clearer about that.

I'm actually very excited about how this 9 part saga will be when its all said and done. I think it will be incredible to have three different trilogies, from three different generations, with wholly different styles and directors all telling one long saga. I think that's amazing. I can't wait to show my children how Lucas pioneered effects in the 70s and the ideas he had about the hero's journey, with a dash of American westerns, all based on Seven Samurai and Buck Rogers. The OT is so amazing.

Likewise, I can't wait to show my children the PT and talk about ambiguity of morality, the fallibility of humanity even when dealing with pure ideas, the dangers of unfettered democracy without separation of powers, eastern philosophy and ring composition, and the use of visual mirroring. Not to mention a discussion of Anakin's personal ethics compared to his turn to the dark side.

And then, hopefully, the new ones will have something to offer as well which would make each trilogy stand alone for different purposes, but flow as one story. That's the idea that I love about them.

And to your last point about the PT not being as good as they could have been...I'm really torn on that issue. I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat. I think Lucas told exactly the story he wanted to tell with all of us moral ambiguity and questionable Jedi Order. Is that the story I wanted? I don't know. I really don't. But I embrace what he wanted to do.

 

I think your observation was entirely fair so I wasn't trying to argue, but rather just inject a bit. Most fans clearly like TFA more than the PT. That is plainly obvious from reviews, audience scores, and everything else.

What I'm about to say is probably the most self righteous thing, because I'm not some cinematic genius nor am I above enjoying a good popcorn flick, but when audiences react to Star Wars the same way they react to Fast and Furious 7 it makes me wonder a bit. I don't hold a very high opinion of the intelligence of the general populace (again, I'm no Einstein but George Carlin summed it up pretty well with his bit about the average person being stupid, and then you realize half the people in the world are dumber than that). So for me, the popularity of a Star Wars movie with the general populace has no meaning to me. I'm more concerned with the nature of the story that's being told and the lessons to be drawn from it, while still having fun in a space opera/sci-fi adventure.

 

It was always very clear that the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin killed Palpatine, the last Sith. That's what "bringing balance" was always referring to.

Obi-Wan: It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them.

Case in point. What was once the central focus of the saga has been reduced to an easily glanced over plot hole. There's nothing wrong with the new direction Disney is taking the story. It works, just not with the prequels.

 

Clearly, when it comes to SW the audience prefers a more simple good vs evil story with likable characters rather than something with more shades of grey and flawed characters, irregardless of acting, writing, etc. And Lucas knew it very well, too. If he was money above all he'd have done the ST many years ago and probably wouldn't even try to do the PT (although I think it would've fared better on TV these days if it was done in a more adult, edgier style).

 

...The story still works with the prequels. Anakin destroyed the Sith, as prophesied. The Knights of Ren are not the Sith. End of list.

 

Wait, I don't agree with that. The IDEA of a prophecy was a central part of the story. The fact as to whether that prophecy was true or not doesn't matter. The Jedi Counsel believed the prophecy to be true, until ROTS when Yoda reveals it may have been misread.

This entire issue isn't Lucas being hamfisted with a prophecy. It's an anti-prophecy of sorts alluding back to Ancient Greek tragedies like Oedipus Rex wherein the saying of the prophecy is itself a domino causing its own occurrence. So whether or not the prophecy turned out to be true is meaningless. What matters is that the Jedi believed a prophecy that was their undoing. It's fatalism at its finest.

Moreover, we still don't know if the prophecy was fulfilled. The Jdei say merely "the chosen one will bring balance." We don't know what that means. The Jedi think it's a pro-Jedi result, but that's pretty self serving. If balance means proportionality (which makes sense both literally and artistically with the yin and yang) then Anakin very well might have ultimately brought balance by sacrificing himself to save his son and kill the Emperor. This left one Jedi in the galaxy - AND one Snoke, whoever Snoke is.

 

The prophecy under the 6 part story is over.
The prophecy under the 9 part story is just beginning.
Everything we know about the 6 part story is out the window.
That went out the window the moment Lucas sold SW to Disney and announced the ST.

 

You might be right, but I'm tending to disagree due to what happened in TFA and because of statements by Abrams and others. They apparently stuck with many of George's ideas for the sequel story they've mapped out. They made some major changes as well, but my understanding is that George's fingerprints are still on this, even if he doesn't see t that way.

Combine that with Abrams vehement statement that he would NOT contradict anything Lucas did and that it will remain canon....

Leads me to believe these sequels are very much going to tie the whole saga together.

 

It occured to me recently that the PT is not only better than TFA in terms of originality ( Ships, costumes, alien worlds etc ) but it also clearly explains the political state and stakes of the galaxy quite well.TFA really fails in this regard and doesnt make much sense.

 

TFA definitely mad me see the importance of the music. The music in TFA sounds off and un-Star Wars, although it's because of the way it's performed, not it's composition. Even the Force Theme sounded wrong.

 

It makes me glad that Star Wars is back to its formal glory now that it's out of the hands of the pretentious corporate cgi mad man Lucas, and into the loving hands of corporate Disney Finally the poor childhoods of fans like DrDre and Force Smuggler are un-raped

 

This won't stop anyone hating on the prequels unfortunately
But with a Star Wars movie every year they'll be less important than when it's a half of the saga.

 

You make me blush...I'm not used to all this attention...

 

What is just beginning is the stupid fanservices and the dumbed down plots, all the intelligence and the political commentary from the previous movies is all forgotten to the: "THE GOVERNMENT FIGHT THE TERRORIST IS GOOD, THE TERRORIST IS BAD." Even that the consequences of the government military intervention created more terrorist and created a world much more dangerous than it was before, but of course, the Original Star Wars fans don't want to think about actions and consequences, only want the fairy predictable and stupid Good VS Evil.