ST Does Han know he'll be killed if he confronts his son?

He tells Leia "(Ben Solo) is never coming back. There's too much Vader in him."

At that point, an alarm should be going off somewhere in the depths of you, the moviegoer's, subconscious. The alarm is blaring "Han Solo is as good as dead."

We know that Han rescuing his son Ben from the clutches of Snoke and the dark side of the force would be seen as an heroic and loving act in the eyes of Leia--the most heroic and loving thing Han could ever do. We know that Leia desperately wants Han to do this.

We know Han wouldn't simply let his son go bad without having a say in things, without one last-ditch effort. Even if, in his mind, the odds are strongly against him being successful (never tell him this though), we can tell that he misses having Leia in his life--he is still in love with her--to the point of willfully sacrificing himself if it means A) showing Leia that he never stopped loving her, and would do anything for her, and B) showing Kylo/Ben that even though his father may have been a "scoundrel" and selfish at certain times in his life, ultimately, by virtue of his experience and wisdom, grew to understand and embrace the "light side" of life (compassion, selflessness, love), and considered it important enough to die for. His death will haunt Kylo forever, and it will always nag at him--it's as if, whenever he starts considering doing something evil, an image of Leia will be there in his mind, and she'll be holding a polaroid of Han with a lightsaber blade coming out of his back.

Several commenters here have said that each time they saw TFA, it seemed that the Han/Kylo confrontation scene felt more tragic and sad than the last time they saw it. I can relate--it kept getting more tear-jerking for me too. The way Adam Driver pulls off the impossible of making us feel sympathy for him by explaining his spiritual/mental anguish over what he's done and whether or not he's been doing what is right--I mean, I really felt bad for Kylo Ren. By Kylo/Ben showing humanity there to the point where we feel bad for him, we see this side of him that we hadn't seen yet, and can thereby see why this is so important to Han and Leia. For the brief hopeful moments, we can almost feel why they've been so wrecked over losing their son--he's a real person, and he's a lot like everyone else they've ever loved. But then the sun blinks out, the calming blue-white light fades away, the "light" of Han's life blinks out, and all we're left with is darkness and an evil red glow.

Han tried and failed.

But did he really fail?

Kylo won't ever forget that moment, and neither will Leia.

Overall, I think we should view Han's death as something akin to Obi-Wan's sacrifice in Episode IV.

The reason I'm asking is that, if so, it opens up all sorts of thematic possibilities. Compassion, even for those who seem to be hopelessly selfish. Sacrifice for the greater good.

I don't know, I haven't been able to stop thinking about this all day, so sorry about this jumbled screed. I'd go back and edit but I have to go make dinner. Magic bread doesn't just make itself (it almost does, but...)

 

Han probably thought there was at least a 50% chance Kylo Ren would kill him. ...and yes, I think that even in dying Han still felt like it might have been for something. Han touching Ren's face as if to say "I still love you" was sort of Han's expression that he thinks there is a chance for Ben's redemption. ...I also thought it was a nice thematic touch that Han fell off the bridge and disappeared into pure white light.

 

Good post, MNSS. It's true. All of it.

 

If I had been there, I would have told Han walking out on that bridge was at least a 99% chance of death move.

He wouldn't have listened.

 

The novelization makes it clear that the only reason Han tries to confront Ben is because Leia asked him to. He still loves her and he wants their family to be together again "Come home...we miss you." But think of this....How much is Han really "living" when we see him anyway? He's separated from the love of his life, his son is evil, his best friend is missing, he's fallen back into a petty life, being chased by gangsters, and owes money to everyone. He knows his son his out there every day murdering people and working for the First Order which is set to destroy everything he, Luke and Leia worked for. He's at the end of the road and really has nothing left to live for.

Imagine going from a life where you have a home, wife and son you love, a successful career as a racing pilot and peace in the galaxy to being homeless, without your wife, son or ship, drifting aimlessly from place to place, deeply in debt and constantly on the run while the whole time knowing your son is out there committing atrocities. I think for those last years Han wasn't really living, just going through the motions and trying to bury his grief and guilt. This was his chance to get his old life back by bringing Ben back and reuniting with Leia as a family, or die trying. Sadly, the latter happened.

I am curious about what exactly Han and Leia's plan was if Ben came home with Han. I mean, he's already murdered billions of people, and Leia is the leader of the Resistance, it's not like he could just hang around the Resistance with his mom and dad and start helping out there. He'd have to be put on trial for his crimes and either exiled or executed.

 

I think he had to know there was a good chance... but I think he also decided he couldn't live with himself or face Leia again if he didn't try

 

Personally I don't think he cared much I f he died or not, I think he really just wanted to bring his son back...
Totally different Han from ANH...

 

Second best friend...

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I don't think for a moment Han thought Ren would kill him. Neither do I think he or Leia are aware of how evil he has become.

 

That's a risk my former lead pilot had to make, either bring Kylo back to the loving arms of his family or die trying to do so... And sadly, the latter option was the one that became reality!

Of course, during that scene, everyone thought that there was still hope for Kylo, after he removed the helmet and tried to pass his Lightsaber to Han. But the moment the sun went dark, Kylo changed back to his evil ways and stabbed my pilot through the chest (the light going out is indeed symbolic gesture that showed Kylo as pure evil)!


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I don't think Han considered that too much.....though I don't doubt he expected some sort of argument/conflict with Ben.

The alternative was leaving his son to a sure death....I don't think Han could let that be, either.

Actually, reading it again, Han mentions a possible reunion in the future. Maybe he expected Ben to get off the planet in time somehow. I dunno.

 

I'm sure the scene with Han was in part to turn Kylo into a serious villain. However since Rey quickly dispatched him the whole sequence seems wasted. Can Ren live up to a Vader like character or has that opportunity been lost?

 

I'd say YES since the whole audience could see it coming a mile away.

 

For me one of the best parts of the movie is Harrison's acting just prior to deciding to call out to Ben, you could clearly see the self doubt Han had about the decision he was about to make. He did it anyway for Leia (and Ben) ....and also because he is Han Fricking Solo!

 

Interesting, I interpreted the "reunion" Han was thinking of to be with Leia because the novelization makes it more clear that he was planning on reuniting with her if he had survived, but he could be talking about Ben. Hmm...

 

Even at that moment before the confrontation, he seemed like he was very reluctant to even try. Speaking with Leia again changed his mind, I suppose, but there was definitely a hestitation there. Maybe he blames himself too and wanted to make amends?

Whatever the case, there was something else that happened to the Solo family other than Snoke seducing their kid. Leia tells us that she wanted Ben to be trained by Luke, but Han tells us that it was an apprentice that turned against Luke and destroyed his new Jedi Order. So unless I'm wrong, I'm guessing that Han knew his son was volatile and didn't want Ben trained at all, and Snoke came in some time later and promised the young Solo that he could train him in private. And eventually being recruited by Luke to be trained, and playing both sides, Ben creates the Knights of Ren with members of this new Jedi Order and betrays and murders his uncle's wife and most of their students.

 

A face that said "I don't know who you are or where you came from, but from now on, you do as I tell you. OK?"

 

It certainly does seem like that at first glance. That said, if he blew the bombs knowing Kylo was in there, I don't know if he'd be able to hide his act from Leia.

"Women always figure out the truth.”.....especially if they're strong with the Force.

 

I don't think anyone told him the odds. And he doesn't ask those types of questions until after he's done it.

In all seriousness I think he had to have an inkling that he might be killed by his own son otherwise he'd have ran right to him and gave him a hug or something. The barking out of his son's name, the slow walk towards each other and asking for the removal of the mask seem like signs he was testing the water a bit. Kylo could very easily just force pushed him off the ledge or leapt to him with his saber ignited.

I think Kylo saying that it was "too late" and Han's face lighting up a bit shows that he might have resigned himself to failure of saving his son prior to that moment.

 

I didn't. Not at all. I was blindsided by Han's death. Just sayin'

 

I think Han was well aware that his plea would most likely be unsuccessful. I also believe he did this primarily for Leia, but for himself as well. He had to try. Even if it was nearly hopeless.

Though right before Kylo killed him, I think Han certainly thought his redemption was possible.

 

There are actually lots of people (particularly those who do not know of Ford's desire to have Han be killed in the OT) who seemed to have been quite shocked by his death. Right up to the moment it happened.

For a lot of people, it truly was an "I am your father" moment.

 

Even when nearing death, Han still had to stroke his son's face and tell him that he loved him... That was just so touching and meant that Han knew that there was indeed still a bit of good left in Kylo Ren and yeah, that redemption was almost possible!


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And sometimes the audience knows more than the characters do.

 

I know a lot of people were unhappy about Han's death, but to me, it was the perfect sendoff for the character. He's at a point in his life where he's estranged from his family and knows that things will never be the same for them, so as his last act, he decides to try and make it up for the woman he loves, even though he knows that he will almost certainly die trying. His last act is one of selflessness; he's trying to convince his son to come back to the light so that they and Leia can be a family again. And when Leia hears the news, she almost certainly knows that he tried to make things right and redeemed himself in doing so.