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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series Does Kanan Have to Die For Luke's Destiny?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by StarWarsFan91, Jul 25, 2014.

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  1. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 7, 2009
    Yes, knowing how they were going to end it would have been figured out early on and I'm certain once we won't have been able to predict the outcome.

    By "absence from the OT" do you the fact that Luke won't say to Yoda in TESB "BTW, I meet two Jedi a couple of years ago, so in not the last"?
     
  2. Darth Valkyrus

    Darth Valkyrus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2013
    They get frozen in carbonite and placed on a ship in a galactic escape trajectory. This is why they aren't in the OT.

    200 Million years later their ship having traversed unimaginable distances of space drifts into another faraway galaxy, the Milky Way, where it is discovered by the crew of the USS Enterprise, thus joining the world's two most famous sci-fi franchises in canon.
     
  3. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 7, 2009
    As valid a proposal as any :)
     
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    [​IMG]
     
  5. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2001
    It's rather simple in some respects -- Having the Force vs. Being a Jedi...

    I can throw a Football - but I am a faaaarrr cry from being an NFL Quarterback
     
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  6. shingi_70

    shingi_70 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jul 24, 2014
    Maybe they aren't quitting but go on a mission that's in the outer rim. Also they might not be related to the rebellion proper.
     
  7. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Where they encounter a certain specific Chiss......and weird alien creatures the Chiss call "Far Outsiders" :D

    Ezra: Uh Kanan.....is that small asteroid following us?
     
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  8. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 24, 2014

     
  9. Arrian

    Arrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 15, 2011
    I believe that is a certain someone's favourite... GGrievous
     
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  10. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 14, 2008
    I was kind of kidding. But I do think there is potential for the Vong to show up sometime in the new canon. I think they were a welcome change of enemy in the old canon. A threat that is VERY alien, not a bunch of humans, while also not being consumed by the dark side and also baddies that could give force users a run for their money.
     
  11. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014


    The Vong were so completely out of place in Star Wars I can't even articulate it. It was a brutally grimdark invasion of freaking orcs, and threw away all of the optimism of the OT's ending. "Well, none of this matters, because in thirty years you're all going to get devastated by a bunch of Chaotic Evil self-mutilating fanatics that are immune to the Force because reasons, sending the galaxy into a new era of pain, suffering, and chaos. All because the Galactic Civil War finally ended and we the writers cannot give the New Republic three weeks of peace."

    That needs to stay a legend more than almost anything else. It's fans can enjoy it without the other canon having to wrap around it. Because to me, even The Phantom Menace felt more like Star Wars than the Yuuzhan Vong. "Dropping the Moon" should be the Star Wars version of "Jumping the Shark", because everything after that point was terrible. The Vong at least were sort of cool if I pretended that it was in some weird parallel grimdark Star Wars universe, which is actually true now. Caedus and Abeloth on the other hand just flat-out sucked.
     
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  12. Darth Valkyrus

    Darth Valkyrus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2013
    Wait until the ST destroys the optimism of ROTJ and makes the setting all grimdark.

    There's always going to be major fighting and conflict in SW. It's right there in the name. Not Star Peace, Star Love, Star Happiness or Star Prosperity.

    Star Wars.

    In the grim darkness of the far past (and in a gffa) there is only war.
     
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  13. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 14, 2008
    I know were going off topic, but anyways, how are the Vong unstarwarsy (and by the way they Vong are not exactly immune to the force)? Is it because of their organic tech?

    Also the fact that the galaxy is faced with another great war after the GCW, does not negate the importance of the GCW and its end. Good beats evil, lives were saved, some suffering was stopped, and the sith were defeated, and a more moral government eventually rose to power. And of course the NJO was able to be formed. And if you know anything about the NJO series, you would know the Jedi played an important role in defeating the Vong. However the Jedi order could not be recreated if the Empire and Sith were not defeated, so that is just one of the reasons why the Vong War does not make the GCW pointless.

    Does the fact that an even worse war happened after our first Great War (which was even less then 30 yrs away), negate the importance of its end ? No. More people would have died, more mother and father's tears would be shed, if the war kept going on after 1918. Also the fact that more wars WILL happen (and maybe even worse wars, such as WW 3) and other kinds of evil will emerge, does not negate the importance and valiant effort of the men and women of the Allies during the next world war who defeated the Axis and peace was restored after the world experienced its worst war yet.
     
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  14. Vespasian

    Vespasian Jedi Master star 2

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    Nov 1, 2012
    In the new continuity, the reason for Luke (and Leia) being the new hope might be the family connection to the Chosen One.

    Without Luke, Vader would have remained the slave of the Emperor. Kanaan and Ezra and Luminara are just enemies to Vader, powerless to defeat him anyway.

    Luke, on the other hand, was crucial in the fulfilment of the prophecy. I doubt Yoda and Obi-Wan thought about this consciously, especially since Obi-Wan openly doubts if Vader can even be turned, but they must have felt it through the Force.

    If nothing else, the spirit of Qui-Gon would have reminded them that despite what happened, Anakin (buried deep within Vader) remained the Chosen One.


    edit: Kanaan should be killed by Darth Vader himself. That could be a great turning point for Ezra, and during his quest to avenge his former master, he might even encounter Ashoka who reveals that Anakin Skywalker turned into Darth Vader.
     
  15. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Kanaan cannot become another Ashoka; his story must be settled before ANH.

    Luke was the "last of the Jedi" and the only hope in defeating the Emperor and Vader; Leia is/was the "no, there is another" that Yoda spoke of. There cannot be any signification Force users during this time line. Not just Kanaan, but Ezra has to die too.
     
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  16. Darth Valkyrus

    Darth Valkyrus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2013
    FTFY.

    Yoda isn't omniscient. He doesn't know the fate of every Jedi. His statements shouldn't be taken as "word of god".
     
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  17. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 24, 2014

    Well yeah, but you don't need to burn down the entire galaxy in order to have conflict, just make it on a smaller scale. The kind of stuff that you get in the EU in the period before Attack of the Clones. Not every war has to be galaxy-wide, much less the freaking apocalypse that the Vong invasion felt like. I really can't explain what I mean by it, but the Vong just feel completely out of place to me. I'd be completely fine with them if they were in something other than Star Wars.

    But this is all horribly off-topic. On-topic, I have to say that while Yoda is definitely not omniscient, he talks to someone who it is entirely possible is omniscient to some degree. Namely, Obi-Wan's force ghost. Now I still don't beleive that literally every single person who was ever vaguely affiliated with the Jedi needs to be dead. "All but extinct" applies to twenty just as much as it applies to two when you're talking about an order that numbered in the thousands. What makes Luke important isn't that he's the only Force-user with training who knows which way to hold a lightsaber, it's that he is the only person who could ever defeat the Emperor by redeeming Vader. If there are any other former Jedi alive by Return of the Jedi, they've been hiding for so long that they barely even count anymore. Anyone that kept acting like a Jedi or tried to fight the Empire was probably killed long before A New Hope.
     
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  18. kubricklynch

    kubricklynch Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 10, 2012
    My issue with the NJO is that it wasn't just another big war after the Galactic Civil War. My problem is it made that struggle seem almost insignificant compared to the Yuuzhan Vong. I mean billions of people got wiped out including a few major characters. They even made Coruscant unrecognizable.
     
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  19. Darth Valkyrus

    Darth Valkyrus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2013
    The biggest conflict mankind had ever seen ended in 1918. At the time, they called it "The war to end all wars".

    Then 21 years later an even bigger war started that dwarfed "the war to end all wars" in scope, scale, death and destruction. Entire cities were erased or made unrecognizable...Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden... Industrialized mass death was instituted by one of the warring parties, with members of the designated undesirable group systematically rounded up and packed into trains that made use of a comprehensive rail network to quickly and efficiently transport them to the death plant, where they were swiftly sorted for slave labor or termination, then those selected to die we're efficiently processed, in large death chambers where they were gassed to death, before passing through a further industrial process stripping clothes, valuables, gold teeth etc before finally heading to the ovens for incineration.

    The whole affair was so utterly grimdark as to totally eclipse the "War to end all wars" from two decades before.

    No reason there couldn't be another even bigger more horrific war 2 - 3 decades after the GCW.
     
  20. kubricklynch

    kubricklynch Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012

    There could have been hypothetically, but storywise it doesn't work for me. What happens in real life is irrelevant IMO, this is fiction. Space opera fiction no less.

    Partly, because to me the huge events of the GFFA, especially ones involving the main characters, should take place on screen.
     
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  21. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    I agree with that. The major events should take place on screen.
     
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  22. Badger_Legion

    Badger_Legion Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 3, 2008
    Really, all other Jedi should be dead by ROTJ. I'm not in favor of trying to lawyer a way around it. ROTJ is a center piece of the saga, diluting the meaning of one of its most significant scenes for a new tv show seems like a really poor way to construct a franchise. IMO, all new additions to the canon should fit together smoothly with previous works or just shouldn't be greenlit in the first place.
     
  23. Darth Valkyrus

    Darth Valkyrus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2013
    Man I do get a little tired of the "Storytelling > Logic" brigade who can always be relied upon to berate you with some stuff about how Yoda's dying words must be taken as WoG because storytelling and poetry and all that, whenever you have tried to point out that logically Yoda couldn't know every Jedi's fate.

    There's nothing wrong with using a little logic now and then. There would be nothing wrong with it if, for example, in episode VII they essentially said "well it was nice and sentimental and feely when Yoda told Luke he was the last Jedi, but since in actual fact Yoda didn't know that and was just guessing he might be, and telling Luke that to fire him up, here are some of the Jedi who actually survived through that time". It wouldn't "take away from the story" or whatever you want to call it.
     
  24. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    Badger_Legion recognizing that character statements are not in-universe word-of-god is not lawyering around anything, it's simply the fact of the matter. Assuming that statements by certain characters have to be turns them into deities, which creates problems other than Kanan living through the OT would present even just internally within the films themselves. Also, what exactly qualifies one as a Jedi is a huge part of this which you have not addressed at all. I don't consider Ahsoka a Jedi anymore and Kanan stopped his training even before her.
     
  25. Badger_Legion

    Badger_Legion Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 3, 2008
    It would alter the way I understand the Dagobah scenes in ROTJ, take away a lot of the importance of Luke's quest, and generally distract me during any future viewing of those scenes. If other people feel differently, fine. I'm not trying to "berate" anyone for having different opinions than me. I simple would prefer it if Disney/Lucasfilms handled the property in a different way.
     
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