Does Leia Remember Her Real Mother?

Was Luke alone the catalyst for the 'good' in Vader, or was the 'good man' still there all along?





- TOSCHISTATION


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So if someone does bad things for a good reason are they bad?

Situation in ROTJ:
Luke set up Jabba the Hutt. He steals droids from the sail barge so that R2D2 will be on the sails barge to shoot him his light sabre.
He send Leia in to get HAN Knowing full well she may be captured, when he already had LAndo in there, who could have released Han from the carbonite, and Luke could have "Pursuaded" the guards to let him and Han and Lando leave. All without any need for blood shed. that would have been the Jedi way, negotiate and then trick your way out. IF THAT FAILS fight. Luke set it up so that there would be massive loss of life, and mayhem. So one could say that Luke had bgun the slide to the dark side there. He did those things for the noble purpose of saving a friend. Does that make it ll right? NO.

 

Does Leia remember her real mother? Yes.

She remembers images and feelings. So even though she doesn't really know it, she's remembering her mother through the force.

And Luke knows this, but can't wrap his head around it. He has no memory of his mother, and is almost jealous of his sister for remembering her, but at the same time is surprised that the force was so attune with her at that young age. (In the Republic, she would have been identified early.)

I believe George Lucas's intention was to show that Leia did remember her mother and has the ability to use the force just like Luke. Other evidence of her ability is at the end of TESB, and at the end of ROTJ after the Death Star blows up. So she has used the force (as far as we know) 3 times in her life. Three... I wonder if Lucas likes that number...

 

Sigh...I don't know why you people cant face it? YES ok YES she remembers her REAL mother, she says so. You all seem to forget Leia is a SKYWALKER, she has the Force just as much as her twin. I got this from Padme's bio on a site.

The parentage issue in Return of the Jedi
Padmé was not mentioned by name in the original trilogy. In Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, Leia tells Luke that she remembers her mother dying when they were young, and described her as very kind, beautiful, and sad. It is possible that the mother that Leia remembers is the adoptive mother that she grew up with on Alderaan, rather than her birth mother. However, since Luke asks her, "Do you remember your real mother?" it is assumed that Leia did, in fact, know she was adopted by the Organas. (It should be noted that in the Return of the Jedi script when Obi-Wan explains what happened to both Luke and Leia after their birth, the character we now know as Padmé was said to have survived and became a handmaiden to Bail Organa's wife, secretly raising Leia as her own child (much as Jochebed did in the Biblical story of Moses). She later died three or four years after the birth. However this part was cut to shorten the scene because Lucas did not think they would need it. Luke would not have been so insistant with Leia on Endor if he was not looking for information about his own mother as well, which suggests the original story was changed or somehow forgotten when the script of "Revenge of the Sith" was developed.

No explanation in the film is given for how Leia could have remembered her mother if she died in childbirth, nor has any official explanation been provided by George Lucas about this erroneous issue. Many have speculated that Leia was able to feel her mother's presence through Force-sensitivity. After all, Leia always "felt" that Luke was her brother, yet he did not suspect that she was his sister. This explanation does not explain why Luke the more powerful in the force, has no memories of his mother. It should also be noted that some people in the real world claim to have memories of their own births, which may also mean that some have memories of their first few minutes after their births. If one watches closely, though, as Padmé dies, the eyes of the infant in Obi-Wan's arms are open--it is possible that this may be Leia, and that he handed Luke to a medical droid. (In the young adult novelization of Revenge of the Sith, however, it does make mention that Leia's eyes are open, while Luke's eyes are closed.) One could argue that it accounts for her memory in Return of the Jedi.

This is the scene where Obi-Wan is holding an infant:

OBI-WAN leans over PADMÉ and softly speaks to her. He holds a small infant, who looks at PADMÉ.
OBI-WAN: You have twins, Padme. They need you... hang on.
PADMÉ: I can't...
PADMÉ winces again and takes OBI-WAN's hand. She is holding Anakin's japor snippet.
OBI-WAN: Save your energy.
PADMÉ: Obi-Wan... there... is good in him. I know there is... still...
A last gasp, and she dies. Obi-Wan studies the necklace.

It should be noted that Breha Organa dies when Leia is 19 years of age. Leia says her "mother" died when she was very young. And in ROTJ Leia is about 23 years old. So, had she been speaking of her adoptive mother, Leia would have said something else and it would have been more painful for her to recall a death that happened only 4 years beforehand.

In an interview, George Lucas stated that he "wanted one of the twins to recall their mother". Since Luke knew Vader was his father, Lucas probably felt that Leia was the one to have this connection to Padmé.

On the official site under Leia Organa it says this about Leia and her memory: "Leia has few memories of her true mother, Padmé Amidala. All that Leia can recall is that she was beautiful, but sad."

 

OK look, I've read the AOTC novel and YES Yoda does state the Force is with her. SECOND This ins't an OBI-WAN Tatoonie connection forum, this is a Leia's memory forum, and Obi-Wan is the old half brother of Breu Whitesun-Lars (accoring to some). THIRD Luke and Leia were BOTH 19 or 20 (actually) in ANH. Carrie Fisher was 19 and Mark Hamill was 22 or 23.

 

O.K., but that has nothing to do with what I asked.

Again, is the good that Luke felt in Vader, the result of Luke, or was it there all along, just buried?

Maybe it doesn't matter in the end, because Vader/Anakin finally did the right thing. But the nature of this thread is 'technical', and as such, we can attach some significance as to how Luke saw the good, but other Force-users didn't. That would entail a complex explanation.

The simplest explanation would be that the Force gave Luke that 'insight' into Vader, though that insight was meaningless until Luke had 'accepted the truth'. Though, I can understand why some would not want to go this route.


- TOSCHISTATION

 

I dont disagree there. (But ask yourself this [about the site] is it a Lucas sponsored site? or is it a fan site. Just cause you can find it on the internet it doesn't make it true.) What I disagree with is the EU CRAP that everyone is spouting of WHY the Visual representation in Episode 3 doesn't disagree with what was put forth in episode 6. Lucas ORIGINALLY intended for LEIA's Mother to live longer. This would have made the episode 3 movie longer SO IT WAS CHANGED.

My point exactly stated in bold.....

End Offical Novel... Begin spouting EU CRAP

 

The movie itself - Episode 6 - doesn't tell you this. And he also "ORIGINALLY intended" for Owen Lars to be Obi-Wan's brother, and for Anakin to go to the Dark Side without knowing that his wife was pregnant.

Maybe you can answer why those elements were changed as well, and I bet it has nothing to do with how long of a movie Episode 3 would have to be.

For all you know, he changed his mind back in 1983, or at least said, "I'm not going to commit to this". Why would he box himself in?


- TOSCHISTATION

 

Since I recently moved and cannot get to my copy would you please quote it as you did the Adolecent version of the ROTS? It would be greatly appreciated....

 

I don't mean to be difficult, but I read those posts and didn't see any answers in reference to what I said(in other words, opinions as to why GL changed the other story elements besides Leia/Padme).

With all due respect, Use2bVader, then why did you answer that he changed it because "Episode 3 would have been too long"? I brought up the other factors to see if some consistency could be applied to this 'method'.

How so? It's safe to assume that not every movie-goer would read the novelisation. It's what's in the finished film that matters. With the finished film, all you have is Leia's POV on the matter.

No, but he did "let" James Kahn come up with the whole "Flashes from her infancy assaulted her - distorted visions of running...a beautiful woman...hiding in a trunk."



Here it is in a nut-shell. Whether or not it's a 'plot-hole', is secondary to the matter of whether the change works better . IMHO, the change of Padme dying right after giving birth, gives more plausibility to the fact of the twins being hidden from the Sith.

I think their mother living on Alderaan for some years after makes the whole 'concealment' scenario untenable.

Just like giving Anakin a 'bugaboo' about Tatooine makes it more plausible why Vader never goes there in the OT or in the years before that since his mother died there.
Heck, even the change of making Anakin Skywalker become Darth Vader, instead of them being two separate characters (this last one alone should show how ridiculous it is to expect Lucas to stick to any exposition given by a character - Obi-Wan - lest there be plot holes.....).

Just like the change in dialogue for the ESB DVD gives a better picture of HOW Vader and the Emperor know who Luke Skywalker is, whereas before they just casually talk about him as if they've known who he was and where he lived the whole time.


- TOSCHISTATION

 

What bugaboo? ESB DVD ruins the holo scene IMHO. The Dialog is spackle and Goat cheese....
But again we are off topic here. If you wnat to continue down this road, lets start a thread where its on topic. It could be call George's top 100 screw ups.....

 

laughs like Jim Carrey in Ace Ventura....hep hep hep

Care to back-up that hurl with some facts or at least some reasonable logic?

For instance, the change from Owen Lars being Obi-Wan's brother; maybe he wanted Anakin to have had some sort of family on Tatooine (if that wasn't his 'original' intention anyway), and having Obi-Wan come from Tatooine would turn that planet into a "Jedi Factory Planet"..........

No....no reason why he'd want there to be any pay-off for average moviegoers.

No, but I don't think that it matters. And what should matter to the "Average SW fan" is not what they "know", but what works better.

At the cost of losing Vader's whole reasoning for rejecting the "persona" of Anakin Skywalker, maybe.

And let me guess: Anakin just assumes that his wife is gone or believes she's dead just because some Jedi tells him so?

Yeah, but she is someone that he knew and loved.

That title gives it away. I'd rather debate facts and use reason rather than dodge Elephant Hurls.....

Vader's aversion to setting surface on Tatooine, instead of just orbiting above for maybe an hour like he does at the beginning of ANH.....

Whether the dialogue is "spackle and goat cheese" now, the old dialogue did imply that they just casually knew of Luke the whole 20 year time. I'd say the fix was needed.

Again, facts and reason. No Elephant Hurling.........and I'm "game".



- TOSCHISTATION

 

Here's the deal. Your'e POV is fine. It's when you try to make it appear as fact. And I'm not talking about your POV on the Saga, but the whole "Money" and "Dark Side motives for changes" thing. THAT was the Elephant Hurl.

And while we're at it, no, to me, everything in the EU isn't fact.

For me it's the movies - not the official novelisations or the EU - but the movies. So we can still discuss, including the original topic of this thread.


- TOSCHISTATION

 

I think you miss understood the Dark side motives....

Quicker (Didn't think it thoroughly through)
Easier (Do it in 1 {line/scene/shot} VS real exposition)
More seductive (Neater gadgets, better toys, or seduced by his own "logic")

And I'm sorry but a great deal of what you say would require EU type belief. IE Vader's Bugabo about Tattoine
Vader didn't linger at Tattooine because
1. He wasn't from there when the thing was filmed....
2. Storywise (if Lucas had had the origin on tatooine in mind) Vader was on an important mission and did not have time for self indulgent things like visiting mom's grave and half brother Owen (also non-existant at this time)

Now then the debate becomes does the addition of PT info change what was filmed? I say that it doesn't if you have to CONSTRUCT more excuses around it. I just put it off to George changed it and move on... Then the discussion moves to motive where you and I will never find common ground.

ANd so to be on topic: No she doesn't due to story revision in the PT

 

Luke specifically asks her about her real mother, so that's who she is talking about.

-NEXT!

 

If Leia remembers Padme through the force then she doesn't really remember her. She never spent time with Padme any more than Luke did. Her memories are fake memories. The force filled Leias head with fake memories and essentially lied to her. Bad force. Then she lies to Luke. You can't remember something that never happened. And Leia is remembering something that never happened. I wonder why the force didn't make Padme look like a Pink elephant? It seems to have a twisted sense of humour in the first place.

Not that I care really. I just ignore stuff that doesn't make sense. I do that in real life too

Edit:
Lukeo you remember your mother, your real mother?
Leia: Yes I do. She was very sweaty and exhausted and lost the will to live.
Luke:

Real memories.

 

I honestly don't understand this inconsistency as well. I thought ROTJ was very clear to point out that Leia was talking about her real mother.

 

Its no big deal really, IMO. Leia eventually stresses that what she "remembers" are just images and feelings. It never actually made any impact on her as far as she knows. Its her "father" Bail who was more important .

 

Isn't that what a memory is though? Images and feelings?

 

Hi.

Right....exactly. He wasn't from there 'originally', so he would have had no compunction about going there. I don't just mean in the film. I mean also the 20year or so period before that. It's obvious he didn't, or else Obi-Wan wouldn't have stayed hidden.

I say it's a 'worse scenario' with Vader not a SKywalker, and not from Tatooine.

Why, you ask?

Because, he supposedly 'helped' the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi. How do you suppose he did this? Maybe he could 'feel' which planet or planets they were hiding on? O.K. then. The question then is, how did Obi-Wan avoid the same fate? Did Vader just get "tired" helping the Empire on this particular mission?

I hope you see where I'm coming from.....

True. But, my point wasn't so much what Vader does in the film, as I said above. It's that, it's apparent that Vader never went so much as near that system, because if he did.....Again, how did those Jedi lose the 'hiding game', but Obi-Wan didn't? Sounds like there was a 'plot-hole' from the get go, that Lucas at least partially fixed by making Vader a former Jedi named Skywalker.

As for the 'non-existant' half-brother Owen.....we don't know exactly what the relationship was 'on paper' at that time. Lucas could have just been vague - "Uncle" - in his background notes and left it at that. Though I agree about the grave... though still we don't know what the 'original' Skywalker family situation was like. I don't think it's so much that George 'changed' the family dynamic over years; more like he expanded upon what little he had to start with 30 years ago.


And......to stay on topic: Yes, she does.



- TOSCHISTATION

 

Perhaps. My point is that its not something Leia had a big impression of. In ANH Leia talks about her "father", who she knows very well worked with Obi Wan in some way. She had been told of Obi Wan as well and trusts her "father's" view of him. Meanwhile, her mother again as I said had no serious impact on her.

What are we talking about again?

Edit: Oops! Im responding to ObiWan506.

 

You're absolutely right. She didn't have that firm impression on her memories of her Mother. She was hazy about the whole thing ... like she was unsure.

However it makes sense though. Using the Force, unknowingly, to see old friends long gone. Using the Force, she sees those distorted, faded images of her Mom. Her real Mom.

 

Exactly. Because Luke stipulates that Leia is wrong if she believes she will never understand the power Luke has and could never have. Leia's thoughts about her mother, make that clear to Luke himself.