Lit Does loyalty justify serving an evil regime?

The Sith both won the war against the Galactic Alliance and were supported by the Moff Council. The Emperor's power derives from the Moffs and they were doing their best to replace a weak ruler.

Morlish Veed was Bollingbrook.



But then again, I have always felt the Moffs were the heart of the Empire.

 

Veed assumed Krayt would make him Emperor but they were clearly planning the coup from the beginning. Otherwise, how would Calixte warn Fel? In the end, the Moffs included the Supreme Commander of the Imperial Military/Grand Admiral Morlish Veed who acknowledged Krayt as their Emperor.

That is why the Empire followed Krayt and presumably whatever good will the Sith garnered by defeating the Jedi.

 

I know but it says where the loyalty of the Empire was to the TRUE leader of the galaxy. Then again, I was deeply disappointed with Morlish Veed throughout. If you recall, I was hoping we'd get a great new Tarkin figure but he was the perpetual puppet.

 

Another part of my objection to Legacy was the idea to portray the Empire as decent and the Sith as pure evil but then again, I enjoy Light Sith and exploring their philosophy.

On a related note, do we think any sequel to Lost Stars would have Ciena Ree confront her philosophy was wrong or is that just an integral part of her personality?

 

For lost star sequel, I really don't want Ciena to betray the Empire.
It should be like after a show trial, she is sentenced to live, but life time house arrest, but a Draven like figure arranges for accident and she dies. Draven like figure will tell Thane that it was an imperial assassination, and Thane will believe him, hating the Imps more and more.

 

Eh, I consider Ciena to be the star of Lost Stars. So really there's no book without her.

 

civil wars are horrible.
If only diplomacy was possible in the star wars.
I mean, before the Death Star,
If Palpatine was smarter he would give "incentives" for non human, non male to "voluntarily" move to worthless systems (probably in the still unknown regions). Then the core world and the midrim would automatically be rid of non human non male after social engineering.

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Now I just think of SW like autocracy vs Bourgeoisie a la 1799ish French revolution.

If you are a fan of ancien regime, then you should support SW Empire.

 

Amusingly, Jello, I find Kir Kanos to be one of the most reprehensible of all Imperials. It's hard to really support a guy with no real love of the Empire but a fanatical personal devotion to Space Hitler.

I liked when Ostrander said he and Carnor Jax were both clones and that, in fact, all of his loyalty was manufactured.

It would have made a very interesting story to explore.

 

Starkiller, Sith Warrior, Sith Inquisitor, the Darth who tried to destroy all of their libraries, the Jensaarai, and a few others.

Basically, the idea that honor is more important than good.

I also agree with your statement Nash and her aren't so different. Ciena looks down on Nash for his loyalty to the Empire and thinks of him as a fanatic but, well, she ignored the fact the Empire arrested her mother for false charges.

They're both crazy.

 

whoever thought the tarkin doctrine was a good idea deserves to be executed.

Good men and women died in a needless civil war. For the amusement of of the 1 percent. (Senators Princesses, Emperors)

 

Charlemagne, remember, how should one define good?
Is it good to follow orders and in battle sacrifice yourself and your whole unit so that friendly units could take out the enemy ammunition so that your amy could win the whole war in a month with minimum civilian casualty?
Or is it good to think for yourself so that you and your entire unit could survive and the war took two years with more civilian casualty?

Furthermore, if you have no honor then what do you have in life? How will others treat you?

It's okay to surrender, we will fight the enemy again! OOps, the enemy put me in a POW camp with no chance of escape. Now I will starve to death.....

Yay! The war is over, I'm free! I must now enlist again to feed myself.

Go to enl;istment officer

Englistmen officer: It says here you surrendered and spent some time in a POW camp..... Why should the army trust you?

Derp.

 

The Core Worlders knew their true enemy was the freedom loving Rimkin. To suppress and destroy them despite the fact they outnumbered the Coreworlders a million to one, they needed FEAR.

FEAR OF THIS BATTLESTATION.

 

Marty, none of that applies to Ciena Ree who actively hopes not only for the Empire to lose but to DIE in the process. Imagine a soldier who actively fights by your side wishing for you to die.

There's something seriously wrong with that and her continued service is a disservice to both the Empire as well as the Republic.

It also makes a mockery of the concept of loyalty as she has none--she just has OBEDIENCE.

It actually is a decent picture of many religious and philosophical models that have people who don't agree with policies but continue with them anyway.

Which is a shame.

 

Oh.

well, serves me right not to have read lost stars because it was a young adult book.

If that is what indeed the situation with her, then.

she doesn't belong in the army. She needs help. I'm sure hope in universe imperial social insurance can cover her psych bill.

I'm sure she at least agreed moderately with the Empire (or old republic's) policy when she joined up. I hate revisionism. Anyway, I can't believe Imperial army code needs you to serve for life. There's got to be a end of tour date...A honorable discharge.

 

I recommend Lost Stars as it's a really good book and honestly is more adult than the majority of Star Wars books. It's definitely PG-13 with topics of war, violence, loss, sex, and loyalty. The character of Thane, sadly, suffers from the fact we've seen his character many-many times before and his parts are less interesting. Ciena, by contrast, is a wide-eyed farm girl ala Luke who comes from a planetary culture where oaths are never to be broken under any circumstances and loyalty once given is never denied. Ciena joins the Empire because she's taken in by the propaganda and believes it is a force for justice and good in the universe. This gradually comes under assault after Alderaan, the discovery of a Second Death Star, and the fact she seems to be a latent Force Sensitive as she "feels" Darth Vader and Palpatine's pure evil.

But by that point, she's sworn an oath to the Empire and refuses to ever break it even if she comes to despise the Empire and everything it stands for. Ciena basically feels trapped by her code of honor but believes in it so much she'd never violate an oath.

It's an interesting contrast to Rae Sloane who believes the Empire is in need of reform rather than devoted service.

 

I think the question is, when you are serving, do you know it is an evil regime?

 

I think if Star Wars was realistic, that most Imperials are like Ree more than a hypothetical man who has just not heard of Imperial atrocities.

Even Baron Fel was aware of the Empire's failings.

He just assumed the Empire was better than the alternative.

 

Krayt I suppose could argue that he deserved to rule because the Sith were apparently crucial for imperial victory. At the same time he has no legal right to the throne and carried out a blatant coup de etat.

In the Star Wars universe however legitimacy doesn't matter as much as power does. Power is what wins wars, and ensures control of symbolic and strategic locations such as Coruscant. Power is what allows the Sith, Mandalorians, Jedi, empire, GA, even the Hutts to affect any change at all.

In the EU this is made abundantly clear and is demonstrated nearly everywhere. With power in the SW universe you can achieve anything. Legitimacy is merely academic.

 

Mind you, I'm a little confused at the fact people keep assuming the Empire is obsessed with legal technicalities. Isn't the Empire a government BASED around rulership by superior might? They're a government founded by Palpatine and with a history of miliary coups in living memory. These military coups include, I remind you, ADMIRAL PELLAEON and their second founder in Admiral Daala who murdered the warlords in order to consolidate their strength. There's also Kir Kanos. The idea they'd react to a military coup with fear and horror is a bizarre idea, especially as its built into the Imperial Charter they may have to perform a tyranicide.

 

Daala "murder" of warlord can count with internal Imperial civil war. It's not a coup. It's a warlord eliminating other warlords. Her tragic flaw is her insane hatred of Jedi.

outside of universe I don't think the writers actually agreed on what the empire is post endor. Is it still based on autocracy? constitutional monarchy? communism? fascism? absolute democracy? All they knew was "how do I make the Empire evil?" So many authors, so many different versions of "evil".