Does Lucas hate the Darth Maul character?

Maul was a loser. A hyper-active clown in make-up.

He served his purpose in the story, theres no reason at all for anyone to ever mention him again.

 

I think maul did his job well. I think that lucas creates certain characters and doesnt relize how fans will take to them

Boba Fett is a good example in the OT. I think lucas said that if he would have known people would have loved Fett so much he would have givin him a more fitting death.

I think Maul is the same way. I think he got a great call back from TPM and ROTS.

At last we will have our revenge

Reveng of the sith

i think that works perfect

dkt

 

Yeah, Dooku WAS suprisingly weak. Sort of a non event. I don't think Lucas hated Maul, he just... God, I don't know what goes through that guy's head.

What, did Dooku not have enough kewl makeup for ya?

Dooku was great...I love Chris Lee, and was glad to see GL give him a role. The character also fits in prominantly into the Clone Wars.

i understand why Maul stuck with him and haunted his thoughts.

Someone pointed it out that Anakin's fatal move against Obi-Wan on Mustafar ("I have the higher ground!") was very similar to what he did against Maul on Naboo, only instead of just standing there like moron Maul, Kenobi slashed him and took him out.

 

Darth Maul returns in the short story in the graphic novel Visionaries. Its called "Old Wounds" and he confronts Obi-wan on Tatooine. It is pretty cool and what not; however it is short but check it out anyways.

 

You no what would be cool if some alien spicies lived at the bottom of the whole that Maul fell in and found him and reserected him, and he made an apearense in RotS. Then Aniken finally killed him, because he killed Qui Gon, and he was jelous of him being the apprentice of Palpatine.

 

Before I elaborate more on Maul let me just say that I realize there's a big rift between people who read the novels and accept them and people who don't. Personally, I LOVE the EU; I think it takes us many places that GL never will because he centers his saga on a very few central characters.
That being said, the novel that came out after TPM called Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter really explored the character of Maul and fleshed him out as a whole character (making him more than just "a wild animal"). I think it would have been completely believable for Obi-Wan to kick or Force-push Maul down the shaft (or even cut a limb or two off in the process) and "think" Maul was dead. Then GL could have brought Maul back AND Dooku - give me just a second and I'll explain - for AotC.
Dooku could have been the political leader of the Seperatists like he was and simply be a Jedi who didn't believe in the Republic's system not a full fledge Sith necessarily. Therefore, Maul could have been the Sith that the Jedi was still hunting and wondering if Dooku and Maul were both Sith or if there was another they had to find. Maul could ahve survived AotC and fulfilled the role that GG played in RotS and made the fight with Obi-Wan mean that much more.
I have to admit that I'm no Dooku fan (although Christopher Lee is a fine actor) and GG was a big disappointment to me in RotS - I thought he looked too fake.

 

You no what would be cool if some alien spicies lived at the bottom of the whole that Maul fell in and found him and reserected him, and he made an apearense in RotS. Then Aniken finally killed him, because he killed Qui Gon, and he was jelous of him being the apprentice of Palpatine.

 

Dooku could have been the political leader of the Seperatists like he was and simply be a Jedi who didn't believe in the Republic's system not a full fledge Sith necessarily. Therefore, Maul could have been the Sith that the Jedi was still hunting and wondering if Dooku and Maul were both Sith or if there was another they had to find. Maul could ahve survived AotC and fulfilled the role that GG played in RotS and made the fight with Obi-Wan mean that much more.

An intriguing idea. But I'm not sure how well it works within the "always two there are" mantra. This rule, while a clever idea, does foreclose certain conventional storytelling opportunities. As a matter of resolution for Obi Wan's character, there would have been something satisfying in having a running battle with Maul throughout the three movies, only to be ended in Episode III. But it could never have been because Maul has a limited, though exceedingly cool, function within the political climate of the PT. Someone like Dooku--smooth, urbane, legendary--is integral to the construction of a plausible coaliton for war.

Now, your argument allows for this, in that you say that Dooku could've been around to build the CIS, but yet not be the actual Sith apprentice. Unfortunately, if he's not a Sith, it doesn't make sense that he's working for Sidious. Why would a Jedi, no matter how disenchanted, work for a Dark Lord of the Sith, unless he himself were on the Dark Side? And, in the context of the SIth of this era, there are only two choices: Apprentice or Master. (This isn't the era of, say, KOTOR, where there were Sith Academies and there's a big population of Sith. If you've turned to the Dark Side, you are either the Master or the Apprentice. Period.)

And it makes no sense he'd have been working with Sidious' alternate persona, Palpatine, either. He'd trust the man at the heart of the political mire to reform it? Dooku left the Jedi Order because of his political objections; it seems highly unlikely he'd do much less than laugh in Palpatine's face if the Chancellor were to lay out a plan that called for even more corruption than already existed. Palpatine's plan is monsterously inappropriate for someone in his position to even contemplate, much less to actualize. Honestly, the likely result of Palpatine telling Dooku about his political plan to "reform" the galaxy through a false war would probably have resulted in a Dooku unshackled by the Jedi Code killing him instantly.

Finally, there's the plot problem of a still-living Maul killed by Obi Wan in Episode III. It totally interferes with the main Anakin-becomes-Vader storyline. One of the sorta "absolutes" of the PT storyline is that Anakin must destroy the current Sith apprentice before becoming Vader. It's the final rite of passage to the Dark Side, in exactly the same way that Luke must confront Vader in VI before, as Yoda puts it, "a Jedi will [he] be". It is no accident that the Anakin/Dooku battle is blocked and set-decorated in a remarkably similar way to the final battle in Episode VI.

For these reasons, Maul is, in short, what he needs to be: The Phantom Menace. Dooku and Sidious are the real deals.

 

I would like to have seen Maul Vs Yoda in AOTC.

 

An intriguing idea. But I'm not sure how well it works within the "always two there are" mantra. This rule, while a clever idea, does foreclose certain conventional storytelling opportunities. As a matter of resolution for Obi Wan's character, there would have been something satisfying in having a running battle with Maul throughout the three movies, only to be ended in Episode III. But it could never have been because Maul has a limited, though exceedingly cool, function within the political climate of the PT. Someone like Dooku--smooth, urbane, legendary--is integral to the construction of a plausible coaliton for war.

Now, your argument allows for this, in that you say that Dooku could've been around to build the CIS, but yet not be the actual Sith apprentice. Unfortunately, if he's not a Sith, it doesn't make sense that he's working for Sidious. Why would a Jedi, no matter how disenchanted, work for a Dark Lord of the Sith, unless he himself were on the Dark Side? And, in the context of the SIth of this era, there are only two choices: Apprentice or Master. (This isn't the era of, say, KOTOR, where there were Sith Academies and there's a big population of Sith. If you've turned to the Dark Side, you are either the Master or the Apprentice. Period.)

And it makes no sense he'd have been working with Sidious' alternate persona, Palpatine, either. He'd trust the man at the heart of the political mire to reform it? Dooku left the Jedi Order because of his political objections; it seems highly unlikely he'd do much less than laugh in Palpatine's face if the Chancellor were to lay out a plan that called for even more corruption than already existed. Palpatine's plan is monsterously inappropriate for someone in his position to even contemplate, much less to actualize. Honestly, the likely result of Palpatine telling Dooku about his political plan to "reform" the galaxy through a false war would probably have resulted in a Dooku unshackled by the Jedi Code killing him instantly.

Finally, there's the plot problem of a still-living Maul killed by Obi Wan in Episode III. It totally interferes with the main Anakin-becomes-Vader storyline. One of the sorta "absolutes" of the PT storyline is that Anakin must destroy the current Sith apprentice before becoming Vader. It's the final rite of passage to the Dark Side, in exactly the same way that Luke must confront Vader in VI before, as Yoda puts it, "a Jedi will [he] be". It is no accident that the Anakin/Dooku battle is blocked and set-decorated in a remarkably similar way to the final battle in Episode VI.

For these reasons, Maul is, in short, what he needs to be: The Phantom Menace. Dooku and Sidious are the real deals.

If Maul had lived maybe Lucas wouldn't have put in the rule of 2. I personally love the idea and if Star Wars is ever remade I hope they employ this idea.

 

"What, did Dooku not have enough kewl makeup for ya?

Dooku was great...I love Chris Lee, and was glad to see GL give him a role. The character also fits in prominantly into the Clone Wars."

What? If you're trying to be clever, try again. It has nothing to do with make-up, it has to do with character. Dooku was the least threatening, most poorly developed Sith Lord of the Prequels. Even though Maul was also severly underdeveloped, he was a threatening presence and pushed the story along. Dooku was even more of a foil than Maul. That's why he was a non event, not because of make up or something or other.

 

What? If you're trying to be clever, try again. It has nothing to do with make-up, it has to do with character. Dooku was the least threatening, most poorly developed Sith Lord of the Prequels. Even though Maul was also severly underdeveloped, he was a threatening presence and pushed the story along. Dooku was even more of a foil than Maul. That's why he was a non event, not because of make up or something or other.

SARCASM. Jeez. Relax.

Dooku has plenty of a role in the Clone Wars, and I found him plenty threatening against Kenobi and Anakin. Oh well.

 

What if Count Dooku would have played Nute Gunrays role? Him Appearing in all 3 prequels would have been nice. Anakin killing him on Mustafar.

Of course then I also agree, Anakin has to kill the Sith, which Obi-wan would end up doing assuming Maul replaced GG.

Meh, I'll just say it's fine how it is. lol

Edit: Okay, let's say Dooku played Nutes role, but was more an active villain in the movies. Then you take Maul, have him fight Anakin in front of Palpatine. Anakin still kills the Sith. Then Anakin, Obi-wan and Palpatine get captured and taken to Dooku. Dooku escapes, by different means obviously, and heads off to Utapau to talk to his fellow Seperatists. Later on, Obi-wan shows up, Dooku is getting ready to leave for Mustafar, and Obi-wan tries to stop him. There's an exciting chase, but Dooku eventually gets away. Then we all know what Anakin does on Mustafar...

The ONLY real problem I see with all this is that that means that Anakin, Obi-wan, and Yoda would figth Maul in AOTC helping Dooku escape. And well... he wouldn't survive that... lol

 

"SARCASM. Jeez. Relax."

Sure sounded like a defense mechanism, but whatever you say.

 

What if Dooku would have been a Jedi who discovered that a Sith Lord was controlling the Senate so he joined the Seperatist in order to defeat the Sith. He didn't know that Sidious was leading the CIS and dealt only with Gunray (who was getting orders from Sidious and not telling Dooku). Then, out of desperation, Dooku began to use the Dark Side when he was close to being captured on Geonosis. This way, I think the Dooku character would have been MUCH more interesting and Darth Maul could have stuck around since this scenario would bypass the Rule of 2. Sidious could have been manipulating Dooku all along without having any real contact. I think it would have been neat to see Anakin and Obi-Wan corner Dooku at Geonosis, fight a little and then Maul shows up and Dooku flees while the two Jedi have to deal with Maul. Then Yoda finds Dooku as he's climbing into his ship (which would have had to have been in a seperate hanger from the Maul/Obi/Anakin duel).

I know all of this kepping Maul around stuff would require things unfolding a little differntly but the end outcome of ROTS would still be the same. I just think the road there would have been more enjoyable this way.

 

Lucas just kept in mind that Maul was a bit part.

No more, no less.

There is a Maul novel if you really can't get enough of him, but Lucas is telling the story of Anakin and his family in the films, where Maul is really just a footnote.

 

I fully realize that. It's one of the reasons why I love the books so much; they let us look deeper at the characters that don't get enough (or any) screen time. This is all just stuff that I think would have made the overall PT story a little bit better. By the time RotS is over, though, we'd still be right where we're at.

 

one things for sure

if maul was leading the seperatists, padme would not have said do u think were on the wrong side?



i mean cause annie would say but they have darth maul!
just look at him! we cant be wrong

 

Count Dooku could have been either a militaristic politician, in the vein of tarkin, or he could simply have been a rebel jedi who slowly fell to the darkside. As to how, if the later had been the case, the rule of two could have been kept WHILE keeping Maul and Dooku, its simple;

Sidious would have TEMPTED dooku with sith nkowledge, powers and status EXACTLY like he manipulated and tempted anakin in rots (I will teach you sith secrets of immortality!) if only dooku would do his bidding and lead the separatists. Ofoucrse Sidious would have no intention of doing any such thing, since Maul would be his real apprentice, and dooku would be a disposable throwaway.

It makes sense, and would be a better plot point and make for a MUCH better story than the trash we had in aotc, even if I do so so myself. Think about it, why would siodious elevate dooku to sith status, when dooku was the only apprentice who could TRULY be a threat to sidious. I say this because while Maul/Vader may be more formidabble fighters, Dooku was the only one with an entire army at his command; he could have killed sidious and taken over the emipire with him at the helm. Maul/vader did not have such political connections. THIS is why sidious tells anakin to kill dooku, he really was too dangerous due to his political backing.

Now going back to Maul, had sidious only tempted dooku with sith knowledge, and told him he would be a sith only after the clone wars, then it would make sense while keeping maul alive. Maul could have remained in the shadows, and perhaps even been told to take out dooku in ep 3. Imagine a sith vs sith duel; this is something we have never seen! We have only seen jedi vs sith and jedi vs jedi / jedi vs former jedi (anakin was not really a sith when he fought obi-wan, he had just begun to learn of the sith knowledge and ways). Just imagine a duel that involved red lightsaber on red lightsaber; the dialogue itself would have been so exciting and cool!
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ex: DOOKU: "You are no match for the dark side." zaps maul with force lightning.

MAUL: "You know NOTHING about the dark side, old man." zaps dooku with crimson colored lightning of his own. Both lightning blasts collide in midair, and then we have a lightning vs lightning tug of war!

Maul eventually wins, and then stands over dooku, ready to slice his twitching corpse.

DOOKU: "I understand now...a fallen jedi's knowledge of the dark side is no match for a born sith...!"

MAUL: "The apprentice has learnt his final lesson." Kills Dooku.
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Then obi-wan could have gone after Maul, while anakin would have been turned to the dark side, as already happened.

 

To be honest, I don't care what anyone says, Maul was and will always be the coolest/badass character in SW.

I kind of agree. I think Maul is "badazz", but Vader is "cool".

 

Sitara - that's alot like how I was thinking. Good ideas!

 

Yes Maul served his purpose in TPM, which was to give us a villan, to kill Qui-Gon, and to show off Obi some. That's why he was there.

But please dont try to say that the story couldnt have functioned if he had lived. Its more than easy to continue the story almost exactly the same.

Instead of Obi-Wan killing Maul you end up with an intense battle that shows that Obi is holding is own against one of the best lightsaber wielders in the galaxy, instead of a padawan that chumps a Sith. Although an escape for either of them would be mildly unbelievable but no less so than Maul watching himself get chopped in two, or Yoda giving up so easily in RotS.

Granted Maul might not be the best leader to rally forces but, historically, there have just as many people flock to blood thirsty warmongers as plotting intelligent leaders. Also there is the ever present hologram of Sidious that is more than adequate persuasion. HOWEVER it would be easy enough to replace Count Dooku as a disenchanted Jedi for Grievous, who would be introduced in AotC to establish the character. Yes there is only 2 Sith, however that doesnt mean that there are only 2 Dark Side users, Sith use the Dark Side, but not all Dark Side users are Sith. Granted there are is no film to back that up but its a fairly small leap into EU, just like the Coruscant name is. Also then Dooku could sill have erased Kamino from the jedi records.

Then in RotS you have Anakin battling an obviously terrifing enemy in Maul, and not the, in my opinion, mildly impressive Dooku. Not to mention the old fogy battle of AotC would be less goofy although the master/apprentice idea is lost there, BUT it could also just remove Yoda from that scene and we first get to see him battle the Emperor, seems ok to me.

But the most important thing is that Obi-Wan gets to kill Dooku now

To me it would have been better just because there would be more continuity between the movies and less throw away gimmick baddies... but I still love the movies and respect Georges choices, he's made far more money at it than I have

 

Wait a minute....does anyone actually think Darth Maul is a better villain than Darth Vader? I certainly hope not... the duel at the end of ep 1 was awesome, but I think Dooku was a much cooler villain through his character, with Vader being the ultimate.

 

I doubt he hates Maul, I mean he approved his design!

 

I don't know that I'd say Maul was a better villian than Vader - it's a toss up to me. But i definately think Maul had MUCH MUCH MUCH more potential than Dooku. I just wan't impressed with the Dooku character as a Sith at all. Maul was VERY VERY impressive.