Does Race And Economics Have Anything To Do With The Response To Katrinas Devastation In New Orleans

Bravo Bubba, well put.

Yancy

 

Here's something that may put an end to a contraversy and make a rapper look stupid.

Two birds with one stone. Go me!

 

Nice post, Bubba.

"it demolishes the rather stupid criticism -- possibly made here, certainly made elsewhere -- that Bush ignored the crisis altogether."

Yes. This is an unfair criticism. Certainly, by Tuesday, Bush was on the job, fully engaged with the Hurricane crisis. Whether better Federal planning could have mitigated the human suffering, or whether the Federal response could have been more rapid, I don't know.

But I think now Bush will begin to rebuild his political capital around this problem. He has to. And things can only get better. New Orleans will end up getting rebuilt largely at the expense of private insurers and American taxpayers, and if I were a betting man I would put money on New Orleans, a year or two from now, having levees capable of withstanding a serious category 5 hurricane as well as a massive federal program for flood plains management to try to keep the remaining land around New Orleans from eroding furher.

 

So, we are going to raise Atlantis.

A better path may be to let Katrina do what the corrupt, mismanaged government of New Orleans and Louisiana could not ? move the poor out of the flood plain and into a better place. Give the money that would be spent building levees to withstand a Cat 5 directly to the people whose homes are underwater. The only stipulation being that they not return to New Orleans.

Let the states who have opened their arms, who have shown an ability to help those who have lost everything reap the benefits. We should not reward poor governance by promising to rebuild this city. Drain it, bulldoze what remains and reflood it. Repair only that which is above sea level.

Let?s end this nearly century old gambit.

 

gallandro, that document is quite a damning document.

It puts the mayor in the sites of the Attorney General.

Why because his inaction caused the destruction of public property and lives.

The numbers were around sixty thousand unable to leave NO. The document says the use of buses is mandatory. ALso the the infirmed are to be evacuated first and the hospitals, nursing homes and other places are to be constantly in contact with the govt officials to make sure their patients and needs are taken care of.

The mayor fiddled whilest New Orleans drowned

 

Your police dollars at work:

http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown-looting-in-walmart/

Yancy

 

Gallandro its walmart, is it really that bad.

The local govt officials that didnt activate those busses should be arrested for this travesty.

 

Has that ever happened before? Is that plan in place? If I remember right the evacuation didn't go out until the mandatory evacuation didn't go out until the day before the hurricane. So you need to ask yourself some questions. Was it a matter of transportation? I haven't seen anything that would suggest a large amount of the people that stayed at home did so out of the lack of transportation, they had places to go, they just didn't go, in fact I haven't seen one interview where someone has said "I just couldn't get to the Superdome". Could the National Guard have done a full scale evacuation in such a short time? What would have happened if they did an evacuation such as the one you suggested, spent millions and millions of dollars, only for the hurricane to pass?

Local shelters that held how many people? There were tons of shelters setup, and tons that were used. In my view the Superdome and Convention Center were the best possible shelters they could use, they weren't flooded afterall, they were locations that the people of New Orleans could easily access. The only problem with using the Superdome and Convention center that officials SHOULD HAVE forseen was a potential security problem. Security became an issue a day into being there, there's really no excuse for that. It's easy for you in hindsight to make all these suggestions of what they should have done but at the end of the day it's all a bunch of crap. You're obviously just looking for people to blame for a horrible tragedy, understandable, but not at the expense of rationale. [/quote]

 

Well Mayor Nagin has stopped blaming Bush and turned his attention to Governor Blanco:

Mayor Nagin: Gov. Blanco Delayed Rescue

Monday, Sept. 5, 2005 11:38 p.m. EDT Mayor Nagin: Gov. Blanco Delayed Rescue

After days of blaming the federal officials for not responding quickly enough to the Hurricane Katrina crisis, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin praised President Bush on Monday - and charged that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco had delayed federal rescue efforts by 24-hours.

"I'm so happy that the president came down here," Nagin said of Bush's Friday visit to Louisiana in an interview with CNN. "He came down and saw it, and he put a general on the field. His name is General Honore. And when he hit the field, we started to see action."

But Nagin had harsh words for his state's leaders, telling CNN: "What the state was doing, I don't frigging know. But I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn't adequate." The New Orleans Democrat said he urged Bush to meet privately with Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco during the visit. The meeting took place aboard Air Force One, he said.

After reviewing the crisis with Gov. Blanco, Bush summoned Nagin for a private chat - where, according to Nagin, Bush explained: "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor. I said . . . I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision."

Reacting to the governor's footdragging, Nagin lamented: "It would have been great if we could of left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out."

"It didn't happen, and more people died."

Yancy

Cyprusg, hurricane, flooding, and evacuation procedures for New Orleans are fully spelled out in this document, the Southeast Loisiana Evacuation Plan Supplement.

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf

 

And I'll point out holes that I saw just as was on the other thread:

1. Where are the suggestions for people to converge to catch buses?

2. Where are suggestions for camps to be set up outside the city? Meaning, where are these people supposed to evacuate to, anyway?

3. What's supposed to be done about the possibility of fires in the wake of evacuation? What about all the chemical plants that if flooded may cause toxic wate to occur?

4. Most importantly, where are the estimations on the numbers of emergency staff needed?

The plan is pretty basic and focuses almost entirely on evacuation -- eerily, just as mr44 said.

 

That's just the supplement that addresses additional information, the full 252 page plan is here:

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/STATE%20OF%20LOUISIANA%20EOP%202005.doc

with supplements for Souteast Loisiana (New Orleans) here:

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf

Southwest Louisiana here:

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1b.pdf

and additional Shelter Plan information here:

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSheltersupplement.pdf

Oh, and this site:

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=1

has a full breakdown of New Orleans' own emergency preparedness plans... lots of good reading there.


Yancy

 

It was obvious that criticism was going to turn back on the mayor and governor. The emergency plan does at least pay token attention to providing public transportation out of the city for people without transportation. I'd like to know more about what was actually done.

It seems to me that the "refuge of last resort", ie the Superdome, was filling up with people at a time when there were still many hours available to get people out of the city when the roads were still open. From my own memory of late Sunday night news coverage, highway traffic was very thin by lat Sunday. Even a last ditch mandatory evacuation between 9 pm and 2 am could have got thousands out of the city.

 

i dunno if this is the right thread for this but i read that police are refusing to hand out food and water to people who are refusing to leave their homes. they are trying to force the diehards to leave the city and stuff. is that even legal to do that to people?

oh..and has anyone else read this too?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.impact/index.html


fox news said this about the hold outs and what the mayor said:

Nagin said the city had the authority to force residents to evacuate but didn't say if it was taking that step. He did, however, say that water would no longer be handed out to people who refuse to leave.

msnbc links:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9229964/

the above link also states that they refused to hand out food and water to the hold outs.


My Anaylsis: how dare the mayor do that...these people are trying to protect their homes. this really boils my blood...

edit #47385834737475767668493

i've calmed down now, i just am angry about this...

 

the above link also states that they refused to hand out food and water to the hold outs.

Of course we have the right to do this. If they are voluntarily staying somewhere where they can't meet their own needs, why would you think the government has to meet those needs?

(Ghetto dwellers, I'm also talking to you)

 

your right...i've thought about it some now. i guess i was just a bit upset that they would do that. they really are die hards aren't they. some of them refuse to leave because they fear what might be in the water, others don't want to leave because they are afraid their homes will get looted or will burn down or something. this seems to put them in a no-win situation. i just think the mayor is being foolish by doing this (personally, he is commiting political suicide by telling the relief workers this and many will priobably disreguard his orders anyway). as stated above the people are in no-win senerios...they should at least give them provisions that can last a few days. they are still technicly needy. they just don't want to leave.

 

The mayor of New Orleans has ordered a forced evacuation of the city:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.impact/index.html

Also looks like the Superdome will be torn down.

Yancy

 

And yet Abu Gharib keeps truckin' along...

 

I wonder how long it would take me to find evidence that the Mayor was "asked" (or bribed) to redirect his blame, in accordance with the Rove PR machine. I'll get out on the net and tell you if I find anything.

Maybe Nagin simply believed the phony story about the Governor not ordering a state of emergency. She did.

 

Yup, that EEEEEEEEvil Karl Rove just runs the universe. He controls the weather... he controls everything.

Yancy

 

Rove is trying to control the perception:

From NY Times

"The effort is being directed by Mr. Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, and his communications director, Dan Bartlett. It began late last week after Congressional Republicans called White House officials to register alarm about what they saw as a feeble response by Mr. Bush to the hurricane, according to Republican Congressional aides."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05bush.html

They said that the Mayor didn't request help and that the Governor didn't declare a state of emergency. Meanwhile, Halliburton's clean up contract was secured in advance.

Fox news was right in sync with Rove's efforts, with O'Reilly focusing on blaming localities on Friday night.

 

I wonder how long it would take me to find evidence that the Mayor was "asked" (or bribed) to redirect his blame, in accordance with the Rove PR machine. I'll get out on the net and see you if I find anything.

That's really far-reaching. You may notice that Bush's PR right now is far below his usual spit-shine spin. He has the audacity to flash his trademark smirk during press conferences as he tells the nation that the New Orleans will take some time to recover. He has the audacity to lay any amount of claim to understanding just how these people feel (after all, one of Mr Lott's home was also damaged in the hurricane, and Dubya made a point of saying how it troubled him so, but that he was optimistic that Lott would build a bigger, better house in its place. He has the audacity.

And of course his mother isn't helping right now with her own remarks.

Race and Economics a factor? After what I saw, I would say absolutely. What aid did come on the heels of the storme was too little far too late.

 

"You may notice that Bush's PR right now is far below his usual spit-shine spin. "

With all the focus shifting to local blame, I see it as a pretty lean machine. Republicans might suffer for this in 2008, but the PR machine is focused now on the present, and is doing a pretty good job keeping its base believing whatevr it wants.

 

Bush PR Machine at work:

Firefighters say they want to brave the heat, the debris-littered roads, the poisonous cottonmouth snakes and fire ants and travel into pockets of Louisiana where many people have yet to receive emergency aid.
But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.

 

Rest assured, Bendu, there is plenty of blame to go around. The blame lies with the federal government in its slow and inadequate response once the degree of the devesation was realized. The blame lies with the state for its inadequate response. The blame lies with the city for not having personnel and facilities in place at relocation points.

No one at the 3 government levels will come away from this unscathed.

As long as people continue to die [after the fact] because of lack of supplies, lack of attention, and lack accessibility, there will be no shiny spin on the circumstances.

But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.

That man should not be there if all he does is pull resources from the effort. 50 firefighters?? That's beyond disgraceful (to the pres, not to the firefighters).

 

Casting blame is a Rove technique that's going to fail in this particular instance. Americans want Bush to show leadership, not duck responsibility for what went wrong.

Still, you have to be impressed with Bush's resolve and determination. Less than a year into his second term he seems very close to achieving his apparent goal of becoming the least popular president in more than a generation. Move aside, tricky Dick.