CT Does Return of the Jedi have a lot of filler in it?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by BoromirsFan, Feb 4, 2013.

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  1. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    Or is most of the film's scenes very important to the plot? I don't have access to the film currently, so I cannot analyze it.

    It just seems like the film has the least amount of stuff going on of the OT. Not to mention the rehash of some ANH content.

    1) The Emperor is established/reestablished as a force to be reckoned with, as well as sprinkles of his relationship with Vader.

    2) Han Solo is rescued

    3) Luke confronts Yoda and Ben about their shenanigans

    4) The Rebels prepare their attack/Endor reconnaissance

    5) Alliance with the Ewoks

    6)The great battle

    7) Redemption and celebration


    However, I do not think the film is overly long. In fact I am not using this against ROTJ, I just want your opinions and discussion

    Do you think ROTJ has a lot of filler in it? Is this a strength or weakness of the film? Or do you disagree?
  2. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Sometimes ROTJ is critisized because it feels rushed and filled with plot because Lucas wanted to finish the Saga so he had to include the plots from episodes 7,8 and 9 (which is, of course, total rubbish). Sometimes it's critisized because it doesn't have enough plot going on.

    The focus of Return of the Jedi is on the "personal story" of Luke Skywalker and his relationship with his fahter. He has to 1) accept that Vader is his father (scene with Yoda), 2) learn that he was a good man once (scene with Ben), 3) sense Vader's disturbance (when they're approaching Endor), 4) believe that Vader can be saved (while confronting his sister), 5) confront Vader ("then my father is truly dead"), 6) confront the Emperor, 7) fight Vader and the Dark Side, 8) refuse the Dark Side ("I'm a Jedi..."), 9) be saved by his father, 10) unmask Vader, 11) save him from the destruction of the DS and 12) burn him.

    In addition to that, it contains some "political story" as a backdrop: the Rebels gather, and lead a mission to deactivate the protective shield of the DS to lead an attack. Not a huge plot, but enough to provide the movie with a mission for our heroes and a final space battle.

    Does it have filler? Well, the whole "saving Han" act is an independent mini-movie, just an excuse to feature the main characters together involved in an adventure. It also provides an interesting opening to the movie. Is it filler? Maybe. But it's fun, and ultimately, Star Wars has to be an exciting adventure.

    The rest of the movie doesn't have much filler. The "adventures on Endor" is perhaps a diversion from the main story, but it's integrated to the political plot and it also makes a thematic point (rebels and ewoks together can defeat the Empire). It also provides an oportunity for more adventures for the main cast.

    If you think about it, every movie has to have a bit of filler. Or in other words, the skeleton must have some flesh and meat. Specially when it's an adventure movie.
    lbr789, BoromirsFan and Joe Antonetti like this.
  3. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    If you want, you could say that everything before the Battle of Endor is filler.

    Still, slave Leia is nice filler. I don't think I'd miss the Dagobah scenes, though.
    Chief Chirpa of Endor likes this.
  4. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 5
    The ewoks are filler. Cute, fluffy, furry filler.
  5. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I think ROTJ probably has the most "filler" out of any of the OT, but I wouldn't say that's "a lot".
  6. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Yeah, there's boring filler then there's filler that EVERYONE ON THE PLANET is okay with. If ya know what I mean. Maybe Carrie didn't dig it so much.
  7. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    Excellent points!
  8. GGrievous Prequel Trilogy Trivia Version 2.0

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    C-3PO retelling past events to the Ewoks. [face_plain]
    Last edited by GGrievous, Feb 5, 2013
  9. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    I'd say that ESB has more.
  10. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    In TESB, the political story is basically absent, the "Rebels vs. Empire" is just the backdrop of the adventure, but there is no development there, no progression. It's an adventure of our heroes, an adventure based on personal relationships and developments. So, in a way, yes; there is more "filler". That doesn't make it good or bad.
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  11. yodasbum Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2004
    star 2
    For me ROTJ is two films. The smaller Han Solo rescue mission and then the attack on Death Star II. There is notning to link the two plots save that Han plays an important part in the destruction of the sheild generator. A contrivence could have been made, espically since Palpatine knows and allowed the plans for Death Star II to reach the Alliance as trap, that the heroes discovered the plans to Death Star II as they are being solf to Jabba. That would alos increase the tension of the rescue- they not only have to save Han but also get the plans and it would also tie in the two seperate story lines.
  12. Skelter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    Filler is used in ANIMES in order to keep up with manga, how can this movie have filler when the movie itself is canon?
  13. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    In the more general sense, "filler" is anything that doesn't advance the plot. Many people, including myself, would add an "or characterization" to that, but not everyone does. Either way, it's not a matter of canon.
  14. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Listen to the commentary track for ROTJ DVD (I think it's repeated on the Blu Rays) Lucas flat-out admits that the opening of the film is, erm, I think he uses the term "riffing" because, basically, the story is about Luke, Vader, Emperor.
  15. Eternity85 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2008
    star 3
    True; ROTJ had a lot of filler in it. This has always bothered me, because all the relevant scenes with Vader and the Emperor and Luke later on was very good. I was not to happy with Tatooine and Endor. But it's never easy to make a third movie and I think Lucas was a little tired by then, lots of stress, even if he did not direct. But the vital scenes in the movie were all very good I think.
  16. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I will say, even if you can legitimately call the Tatooine portion "filler" I do like how it's just a contained adventure that has nothing to do with saving the galaxy, they're simply there to save their friend and make things right. It shows how close they've come as a family across the years where they would risk their lives to save Han. Also? Rancor keeper crying!
    lbr789 likes this.
  17. EvilQ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2013
    star 1
    The Ewoks, period.
  18. TrandoJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2011
    star 3
    I used to feel like the Jabba's Palace scenes was useless filler and was sometimes rewind past it. However I love all of it nowadays. The film really picks up once they leave Tatooine though.
  19. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Jabba's Palace isn't totally contained either: it helps establish where Luke is now, both in his development and skills as a Jedi and in the way he's walking a little along the edge of the Dark Side.
  20. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Tru dat. Although I never got the idea he was dancing near the dark side but the movie has been burned into my brain since I was a kid so I never thought of him going that way.
  21. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Force-choking the Gamorrean guards, the visual parallels in his entrance to Vader and Palpatine, and, some people say, the violent ending (although he gave Jabba enough chances for a peaceful resolution that I don't really buy that one) have all been brought up before. It's subtle, but I think it's definitely there.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Feb 14, 2013
  22. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Actually, when I was writing that last post what kept running through my head was Luke's extremely overconfident and somewhat menacing / condescending "That's the last mistake you'll ever make!" to Jabba when they're being dragged off. As I kid, it never entered into my head, it was always "Yay! Luke! He's the good guy!" which kinda continued throughout the years. But that "last mistake" retort is a bit ... Sith-ish for a peace-loving Jedi, y'know? Maybe Luke was trying to scare him into letting them go, I guess.
  23. Eternity85 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2008
    star 3
    Luke was definitely vulnerable in ROTJ, something that Lucas wanted us to understand. You can also spot a little arrogance in Luke.

    But if you compare Luke to his father at the time of ROTS, then Luke is doing alright.
  24. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I don't think ROTJ contains a lot of filler. The scenes at Jabbas palace were completely plotrelevant. They later needed Han Solo on the forest room and so a rescue mission makes a lot of sense. They also needed the support of the Ewoks, which they earned through trial.
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