Does RotS explain why Anakin's spirit is young in RotJ?

Doesn't matter. Lucas equates that version of Anakin as a good man, despite his flaws

And he doesn't equate the person we see at the end of ROJ dying in Luke's arms as a good man ?

Pphhtt!
This business makes no sense, when I saw ROJ in 83 I understood that the old man dying was now Anakin Skywalker again, does Lucas want to somehow deny this now ?
what a mess.

g

 

Lucas is saying that the burnt man is the pathetic version of Anakin Skywalker. The one who made the mistakes and now sees clearly, for the first time. The Anakin ghost seen at the end now, is the man who he was once before. Freed from evil and sin. Gone are the scars and bionics that marred him. Restored to his original state.

 

darth-sinister;
Shaw Anakin was also connected to Prowse/Jones/Anderson Vader, who also did many evil deeds. Talk about stretching.

Not really. We only saw Shaw AFTER he had been redeemed and was on the Light side once more. We never saw the Shaw image commit an evil deed. We never saw his body or heard his voice commit an evil deed.

Anakin did a lot of good as well as well as evil.

Well, if he did, not much of the good he did was shown on screen, where it NEEDED to be shown. You can't just say, "Anakin was a good man. He did a lot of good deeds." ACTIONS speak louder than words. We saw Anakin do a LOT more evil deeds on film than good ones.I mentioned many in my earlier post. Even when he was supposedly "heroic", he was disobeying his Master. For example in AotC, when Obi-wan wanted him to wait and work together with him against Dooku, Anakin went on his own, thus losing an arm and nearly causing Obi-wan to be killed. Anakin was also supposed to protect Padme on his first mission, but when he had his dream about his mother, he put that responsibility on the backburner and went to try to save his mother.

Anakin Skywalker is basically a good man who was tricked into evil,

He wasn't tricked. He chose to kill Dooku and to join Palpatine. Even when Palpatine admitted that he didn't know how to save Padme, but was sure that the two of them could figure it out together, Anakin chose to stick with him and do his bidding. It was after Palpatine's admission that he didn't know how to save her that Ankin STILL went out to kill younglings and attack the Jedi Temple for Palpatine. He wasn't tricked. Palpatine told him the truth. He STILL chose to be a Sith Lord.

Lucas wanted to take us back to the good man that he once was. And that was the good man that he once was.

And that is the biggest mistake that Lucas made, in my opinion. He DIDN'T show us the Hayden Anakin as a good man. He showed us the Hayden Anakin as obsessive, possessive, selfish, arrogant, violent, angry, and ambitious.

gezvader28;
This business makes no sense, when I saw ROJ in 83 I understood that the old man dying was now Anakin Skywalker again, does Lucas want to somehow deny this now ?
what a mess.

I agree.

darth-sinister:
Lucas is saying that the burnt man is the pathetic version of Anakin Skywalker.

Which is sad, because the Shaw version was the benevolent, redeemed father who had sacrificed himself for his son and brought balance to the Force at the same time.

The Anakin ghost seen at the end now, is the man who he was once before. Gone are the scars and bionics that marred him. Restored to his original state.

Well, he looks like his original, evil Hayden self. He even gives Luke a rather evil look. He definitely doesn't look like a redeemed father figure to me at all. Sad, really.

And the Shaw ghost also had the scars and bionics that marred him removed. It was the perfect way to show Luke that the Father he had just met and lost had been redeemed and had joined Yoda and Obi-wan in Jedi Heaven.

 

"The lesson mentioned nothing about death. You've added that."

I never said they MENTIONED death (but when else would it happen). I pointed out that the dialog in ESB simply explains how becoming a ghost through the force is possible. That is ALL it makes clear, and the proceeding events before the change supported that. It is YOU who has the market cornered when it comes to "adding" things to this scene.

"The lesson is that our true selves are spiritual and not the curde matter of our physical forms. So if the lesson is that Jedi can transcend the physical body, why isn't it okay to accept that this is what happens to Anakin like the characters tell us?"

Who doesn't accept that Anakin, like Yoda and Ben, can transcend his physical body? Were not talking about if force-ghost are possible, hello?, we already know that. Were discussing why Hayden is portraying Anakin's spirit in the image of his younger self. But nice try.

"EVERYTHING the characters say on the subject in the OT and PT tells us why Hayden is in that scene."

Ridiculous. I guess now your going to say that everyone who saw ROTJ in 83 were confused as to why Anakin's ghost wasn't young. NOTHING in the OT says that a ghost would appear young. It explains that ghost are possible through the force and it SHOWS us the manner in which their image returns. The change does not fit into this criteria.

"Anakin was "consumed" "gone" "murdered" "destroyed" "lost" in ROTS."

So who chucked the Emperor down that shaft then? And if he became one with the force when he "died" in ROTS, why isn't he on Dagobah giving instructions on how to stop Vader?

"Mischaracterizing Lucas' words as a "loose explanation" and "inconclusive" is just an example of how you guys will twist, distort or ignore anything that runs counter to the assumptions you formed after watching only the second half of the story."

Nonsense. Don't get carried away with all this "second half of the story" TREND. Lucas hadn't planned to get passed ANH. This "half" of the story was self contained and consistent with it's content. Now, it is not. And Lucas words are indeed inconclusive and very loose in explanation; If this were NOT so, you wouldn't keep posting your position. If his words were clear cut, you would only need to quote him to end the debate. You wouldn't need to expand on what he says with your own INTERPRETATION if he had answered the question. He, did, not. He mumbled something about persona's and added some filler about it being a way to end the saga which is painfully obvious. ANY ending of the film is a way to end the saga. DUUUUHHHH!!!

NeoBaggins posted:
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Oh yeah! Great post back there, Nordom. I can't believe that such clear cut reasoning and good thoughts can be met with such resistance still.
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"Ohmigod, and your shoes are SOOOO cute!"

I don't know what that means, but I noticed you've conveniently left out my following statement of: "But that's just my own take on it." It's funny though, you just got done ranting about people twisting and distorting things and yet here you are quoting me out of context to paint a picture. Pathetic.

"Apparently your tactics now involve ignoring my responses and then making the same complaints a few pages later even though I've addressed it all before. Sad."

What's sad is that you obviously believe the discussion is centered around what YOU have to say in which you believe you are right about something. You think you have "covered" something and that when you "address" an issue on this subject that somehow your word is final. It is not and NEVER will be. If you see me continuing a particular argument it is because I have been presented no reasonable or logical counter to change my position. The quicker you understand that your interpretation of all this doesn't equal that you are right

 

Even when Palpatine admitted that he didn't know how to save Padme, but was sure that the two of them could figure it out together, Anakin chose to stick with him and do his bidding. It was after Palpatine's admission that he didn't know how to save her that Ankin STILL went out to kill younglings and attack the Jedi Temple for Palpatine.

Precisely. This, coupled with the fact that Anakin is seen crying on Mustafar as if in contemplation of his choice, is proof enough for me that some evil persona didn?t spontaneously take over his conscious being. Rather, Anakin was fully aware of the consequences of the dark path he embarked on.

Lucas is saying that the burnt man is the pathetic version of Anakin Skywalker.

In that case I find it ironic that the pathetic Anakin had the spiritual prowess to destroy the Sith, while the good clean younger Anakin succumbed to that same evil.

Gone are the scars and bionics that marred him. Restored to his original state.

An original state that didn?t fulfill the destiny of the Chosen One.

 

Neo:


If his words were clear cut, you would only need to quote him to end the debate. You wouldn't need to expand on what he says with your own INTERPRETATION if he had answered the question. He, did, not. He mumbled something about persona's and added some filler about it being a way to end the saga which is painfully obvious. ANY ending of the film is a way to end the saga.

Exactly Neo! I have been saying that for awhile now. DarthToeJam has added his own dialougue to that interview to fit in nicely with his theory. I have repeatedly asked for proof that Lucas said that there is two spirits born of one person fighting for control of the same body or mind. The moviefone interview does not say this.

What's sad is that you obviously believe the discussion is centered around what YOU have to say in which you believe you are right about something. You think you have "covered" something and that when you "address" an issue on this subject that somehow your word is final. It is not and NEVER will be. If you see me continuing a particular argument it is because I have been presented no reasonable or logical counter to change my position. The quicker you understand that your interpretation of all this doesn't equal that you are right about something, then you will be able to discuss this with an open mind.




Then Obi-Wan and Owen are related.

DTJ, this is probably the weakest argument of all. You know Lucas thought that Star Wars was probably going to be a one shot deal. Lucas has said and confirmed this in interviews and biographies like Empire of Dreams. That part of the story changed. That does not invalidate the other novels.

 

And he doesn't equate the person we see at the end of ROJ dying in Luke's arms as a good man

No he deosn't otherwise he'll have scars and no hair, etc etc. That's the person that saved Luke

 

Ah yes. Hands down the weakest argument ever used in this discussion: Shaw should be scared up as a ghost.

Welp, we know what this is...

[image=http://www.thenerdpage.com/pic/itsamadhouse.jpg]

 

Oh, its nothing compared to the suggestion that Anakin's ghost shouldn't be so young all because he killed a bunch of kids.

A person's actions do NOT define what a ghost should look like, it is their age. If a person died young, their ghost will adopt the image of a young man but if they died at an old age, the ghost will be that of an old man. Both Obi-wan and Yoda died at a very old age so its appropriate that their ghosts look exactly as they did but Anakin almost died when he burst into flames on Mustafar and if PalpSidious hadn't rescued him and put him in his Darth Vader suit, Anakin would have died immediately. Even when he eventually died in ROTJ, Anakin had never seen himself since the moment he slapped on the Vader mask and the only memory he had of himself was his "Revenge of the Sith" self.

That's why Anakin's ghost is so young.

 

Because he hadn't seen himself since he put on the suit? You do know that the helmet does come off, right? Vader has a meditation chamber that allows him to breath and tend to himself. Anakin has seen himself many times i'm sure, and most definitely during his young days as Vader. It's probably a hate fueling ritual to look at himself all scared and burnt up. It fuels his hate for Obi Wan. Besides, Anakin doesn't choose how he looks or executed his transition into the force. Obi Wan and Yoda are said to be the reason for his ghost. How, I don't know.

 

I never viewed Anakin as a good person. Even when he's attempting to do something good, he still has that evil look on his face. And unlike Luke, we never got to see innocence in Anakin Skywalker. Only sadness, conflict, anger, and ultimately evil.

 

PMT99:
If a person died young, their ghost will adopt the image of a young man but if they died at an old age, the ghost will be that of an old man. Both Obi-wan and Yoda died at a very old age so its appropriate that their ghosts look exactly as they did but Anakin almost died when he burst into flames on Mustafar and if PalpSidious hadn't rescued him and put him in his Darth Vader suit, Anakin would have died immediately.

At the beginning of your post, you state that the ghost adopts the image of a young man if he dies young, and of an old man if he dies of old age. That makes perfect sense to me. But please note that Anakin did NOT die as a young man. As you even said in your post, he ALMOST died in RotS. "Almost died" is NOT the same thing as "died". So, since Anakin didn't die as a young man, but as an older man on the second Death Star in the presence of his son, his ghost should ALSO be that of an older man, and NOT of his younger self.

 

But he is still connected to Darth Vader, who was played by the above mentioned actors. Just cause it was a different person under the suit, doesn't mean that it isn't the same character.

Anakin still did a lot of good in AOTC and ROTS. Anakin had saved Obi-wan's life several times, three of which we saw in the film. They did eventually team up to fight Dooku, even though Obi-wan got taken out of the fight twice. And Anakin did protect Padme, because she made it easier for him to go to Tatooine, by accompanying him. And then she made the decision to go to Geonosis, which gave Anakin an out for going there. He also managed to track down Zam Wessel.

He was tricked into thinking that the Jedi were evil and that the only way to save his wife, was to go to the Dark Side. He was tricked into thinking that the Dark Side would give him what he wanted.

But that's how Anakin was. He was all those things, but deep down, he was a guy who only wanted to do the right thing. His point of view on right and wrong was messed up, but it still is part of his character.

He's still Anakin Skywalker. He just looks younger as a ghost.

He's still the same person. We see that when he saves Luke. But he's also showing us the other side of Anakin, which was this pathetic person who made mistakes. A tragic character.

Didn't look

 

darth-sinister:
But he is still connected to Darth Vader, who was played by the above mentioned actors. Just cause it was a different person under the suit, doesn't mean that it isn't the same character.

And Hayden Anakin ISN'T connected to VADER????????? Come on! We saw the Hayden Anakin commit the evil deeds. We saw the Hayden Anakin kneel before Palpatine and AGREE to become a Sith Lord. We saw the Hayden Anakin choke Padme, lead troopers to kill the Jedi, and battle Obi-wan. We also saw Hayden enter the suit. Hayden is a visual image of the dark side of Anakin, of the Anakin who chose to do evil and DID evil.

Meanwhile, we only see the Shaw Anakin chat with his son and tell his son that he had saved him and that he had been right about him. Shaw is the VISUAL image of of the good that was still in Anakin. Shaw is the image of the Anakin who chose to return to the Light side and destroy the Emperor and save his son.

Anakin still did a lot of good in AOTC and ROTS.

Not nearly as much good as he did evil. And he was arrogant and ambitious and angry and vengeful and bsessive and always complaining. Not exactly what I would describe as a 'good' person.

He was tricked into thinking that the Jedi were evil and that the only way to save his wife, was to go to the Dark Side. He was tricked into thinking that the Dark Side would give him what he wanted.

I would say he was more foolish and stupid for listening to the Emperor than "tricked", ESPECIALLY since the Emperor admitted that he DIDN'T know how to save Padme...and that was before Anakin started on his killing spree in the Jedi Temple. The Emperor didn't trick him; he outright told Anakin he didn't know how to keep people from dying. Anakin still chose to do evil deeds.

But that's how Anakin was. He was all those things, but deep down, he was a guy who only wanted to do the right thing.

But the point is, he DIDN't do the right thing. The road to that very hot place that begins with an H and ends with an L is paved with good intentions. Wanting to do the right thing and actually DOING the right thing are two completely different things. Since Anakin so often chose to do the evil deeds, he wasn't such a good guy as Lucas would like us to believe. As I said, we needed to see more evidence of Anakin doing good deeds, helping others, and being a loyal, obedient, non-complaining Padawan to show he was a really good person. We didn't get much of that. I think the decision to have ANakin kill the Tuskin women and children was a bad one, as it showed us early on that Anakin couldn't control his anger. Anyone who can kill innocent children is NOT a good person.

He's still Anakin Skywalker. He just looks younger as a ghost.

And that makes NO sense, given that it has already been established that Jedi appear as they were when they died, but in a "glorified body" with no wounds or blemishes. This change doe NOT make sense.

He's still the same person. We see that when he saves Luke.

And we should see that person who saved Luke and who died soon after he looked upon Luke with his own eyes, as a ghost. Luke should see the image of his redeemed, grateful father, not a young arrogant kid.

Didn't look evil to me. He looks like his former self, freed of the Dark Side, which ages you physically.

But he also would have aged by 20 some years even without the extra aging caused by his battle with Obi-wan and darkside usage. We should see an OLDER Anakin, not the young one we saw committing evil deeds.

Still the same. Anakin's still his father, no matter what he looks like.

He may be Luke's father biologically, but the Hayden Anakin looks like Luke's younger brother, NOT his father. And that is NOT right!

 

So was Sebastain Shaw, who is connected to Jones/Prowse/Anderson who did evil deeds.

He is also the visual image of the evil Vader, who's physical form was corrupted and his spirital remained the same. Even if you don't go for the dual persona, you cannot deny that he was also a part of the evil Vader in the suit.

A good person who loved his mother, his wife, his unborn child and his Master. As well as Palpatine, even though he's being manipulated by him. A good person who wanted an end to war, to stop the people he loved from dying and to maintain peace.

Palpatine: "The power to cheat death has been accomplished by one other. But together, we can find a way."

It was still good enough for him.

Yoda: "Much anger in him, like his father."

Yoda: "If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path, as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil."

Anakin choose the quick and easy path to power, to save the ones he loved. Lucas is showing that our desires can get the better of us, if we do not take better care. Anakin failed because he couldn't accept the natural course of life.

"The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark Side because the Dark Side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the Dark Side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance. It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side

 

Darth Sinister;

I must disagree we never see Anakin be a good man or do any good deeds as an adult. We see him do brave things, but never do selfless acts to help another being. He is the personifiction of a self centered man who craves attention and ego stroking. He loves, but there have been many evil men in the world who loved their family and then turned around and ordered other families to their death.

The only good deed we see Anakin do as an adult is when he kills Sidious and saves his son, but even that has selfish motivations. He doesn't kill Sidious for the greater good, but because he wants his son to live. Obi-Wan demonstrates in the OT what a Jedi and a good person truly is by sacrificing himself for Luke, who is the son of the man who destroyed everything he held dear in order to save that same man and hopefully bring peace to the galazy. We then see another example of a good Jedi and person when Luke sacrifices himself and the person he loves more than anyone else (Leia) in order to prevent becoming the Sith's apprentice and helping to perpetrate evil on the galaxy.

The killing of Sidious, though not completely selfless is what earns him redemption (perhaps since Anakin's redemption has been called in question by Lucas himself) is what rewards him with mortality or blue ghost status to begin with. Why wouldnt that older wiser Anakin be the blue ghost then rather than the evil foolish Anakin that is the one that caused and perpetrated all the evil in the first place.
It is an illogical change that is based on commercialism rather than good storytelling.

 

Anakin's still an adult at age 22-23. To suggest otherwise is wrong. He may be a young man, but he is still a man. And it is a slap in the face to say we never saw him do any good deeds. Let us review.


-Saved Obi-wan's life several times, even when he messed up a couple of times.

-He won many battles during the Clone Wars.

-He tried to rescue Shmi.

-He did save Padme.

-He tried to capture Zam Wessel.

Those are good deeds in my book.


Anakin is only redeemed by becoming a good man again. He cannot make up for his mistakes. Nor can he fully atone for them. He just admits his mistakes and saves his son, stopping the horror.

 

darth-sinister:


So was Sebastain Shaw, who is connected to Jones/Prowse/Anderson who did evil deeds.

I disagree. Shaw was only seen AFTER Anakin had been redeemed; never before.

He is also the visual image of the evil Vader, who's physical form was corrupted and his spirital remained the same.

The physical form wasn't changed solely because of the corruption of the dark side. The physical form of Anakin was also changed because of his duel with Obi-wan. Anakin already looked VASTLY different after the fight than he did before.

And I don't "buy into" the theory that ANakin's spirit would have remained the same. That doesn't make any sense. If that were so, Yoda and Obi-wan would have been seen as spirits in the primes of their lives too. Anakin's "spirit" did NOT die!

Even if you don't go for the dual persona, you cannot deny that he was also a part of the evil Vader in the suit.

I associate Shaw with the redeemed Anakin. I associate Hayden with the evil Anakin.

It's still his father, no matter what he looks like.

But how in the galaxy is Luke supposed to know that's his father? Hayden doesn't look at all like the man he saw die, and Hayden is certainly the wrong age to be Luke's father in RotJ.

But the aging is a result of the Dark Side, not naturally as it did with Obi-wan and Yoda.

The aging was only caused by the use of the Dark Side. 22 years have passed. He's certainly not going to look like the Hayden of RotS 22 years later even if he hadn't been lost to the darkside!!!!!!!

Except that it was when Anakin dies spirital, in ROTS. He's reborn in ROTJ and then dies a physical death.

And this is where you and I fundamentally disagree. Anakin did NOT die spiritually or physically in RotS. Anakin died in RotJ. Did you read the novelization? Anakin is indeed alive in that suit, and knows EXACTLY what he has done. He knows that HE committed the evil deeds, no one else.

I don't think I'll be posting here anymore. It's VERY obvious that we see these films TOTALLY differently. We'll agree to disagree, okay?

 

How can you say it wasn't a selfless act? Even if it was to keep Luke alive. Obi-Wan sacrificed himself to keep Luke alive and Luke planned on sacrificing himself to not become evil and to keep Leia alive. So how could Anakin doing the same thing NOT be selfless? Anakin killed Sidious, Vader, himself, and any hope of the Empire or Sith reigning supreme all in one act. I think it's the most selfless act we see in the whole saga.

 

Because the soul of Anakin Skywalker had stopped aging when he became Darth Vader. It had become stunted; unable to evolve and grow with the experience that comes with age. Anakin didn't do the right thing and tried to stop things we can't control from coming to pass. Instead, he tried to use his powers to get what he wanted. This goes against nature and against the way of things. Because of his choices, Darth Vader consumed his soul. When it came back, it was the way it was the last time when he was Anakin Skywalker. Since he dies soon after, he doesn't have the opportunity to make a change for what he did as Darth Vader, so those last 23 years of his life are made so that they almost didn't even exist. The fact that his spirit is young is both good and bad. We see that he has come back to the light and is who he once was, but we also get the reminder of what happened in the last half of his life and that those things must never be forgotten so that they never happen again. That's why he looks young.

 

NeoBaggins posted:
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Nonsense. Don't get carried away with all this "second half of the story" TREND. Lucas hadn't planned to get passed ANH. This "half" of the story was self contained and consistent with it's content. Now, it is not. And Lucas words are indeed inconclusive and very loose in explanation; If this were NOT so, you wouldn't keep posting your position. If his words were clear cut, you would only need to quote him to end the debate. You wouldn't need to expand on what he says with your own INTERPRETATION if he had answered the question. He, did, not. He mumbled something about persona's and added some filler about it being a way to end the saga which is painfully obvious. ANY ending of the film is a way to end the saga. DUUUUHHHH!!!
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"Lucas did plan to get TESB and ROTJ made, no matter what happened with ANH."

Regardless, the OT is STILL has self contained, consistent content, within it's three films. The prequels arn't needed to understand it. But how do you feel about the MAIN points made in that paragraph?

NeoBaggins posted:
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Yes, we are indeed told that. Are you saying that the Force is like a God who thinks, decides, and chooses? Are you saying that the force God decided to make Anakin's ghost young?
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"In a nutshell, yes. It says that a Jedi who returns from the Dark Side has to look as he/she did from before. All Yoda and Ben did was help him to do it."

I don't understand. Can you explain how the force is God-like and making a concious decision in judging Anakin and granting him his ghostly form.

"-Saved Obi-wan's life several times, even when he messed up a couple of times."

These lines show that Lucas was aware that Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship was hardly conveyed in AOTC and nonexistent in TPM. Just like he wrote in the Gundark Nest story and whatnot, he needed to throw some quick lines in there about Anakin saving Obi Wan. Film is a visual medium says Lucas. If were to believe Anakin does good and heroic things, he should have shown it.

"-He won many battles during the Clone Wars."

Missed it. Must not be in any of the films.

"-He tried to rescue Shmi."

Resulting in revenge and murder at the stage of a mere Padawan.

"-He did save Padme."

When? Padme was the ONLY thing Anakin cared to be heroic about and he failed everytime he tried to save her ironically. They were both captured in the factory and it was Artoo who kept her from being melted. She saves herself in the arena by being "on top of things". He wants to go running after her again while chasing Dooku and he isn't allowed to do that. Anakin walks around with the demeanor of the BAT but can't seel the deal when it comes to heroics. He's no hero, or at least that's what the movies are telling us.

"-He tried to capture Zam Wessel."

The word "tried" emerges again. Obi Wan takes her down. But Anakin does get info from her by using his most obvious power: force and anger by way of shouting. "Tell us now!!"

"Those are good deeds in my book."

He tries, but fails miserabley. He screws up because his heart and intents are in the wrong place. The traits of a potential villian. It is his destiny.

 

Doesn't matter. He's still connected to that aspect.

His physical form was aged because of the Dark Side, as well as the injuries. A Sith Lord apparently ages as they immerse themselves in the Dark Side. Thus it plays a factor in how their ghost looks.

Yet Lucas says otherwise. Yoda and Obi-wan remained with the Light of the Force. Anakin fell and fell hard. That's why he's different.

And Hayden is also good Anakin, while Shaw is evil Anakin. Symmetrical.

What, Luke's a Jedi dumbass now? Please. He'd know that's his father. It's insulting to think Luke's a moron.

Physical is one thing. Spiritally is a different matter.

No one isn't saying that he isn't aware of what he's done. I'm saying that the good man dies in ROTS, but is resurrected in ROTJ. Much like Lucas says. And Lucas has been known to go against the novelizations before.

Fine. No one's forcing you to respond to me.

Lucas had one story in 1974. He broke that down into 3 films. He was trying to get the first act made, but was doing his best to get the other two finished. Which is why he got creative control. No matter what, he was going to try and get all three acts filmed. It worked out and that was that. He did have the backstory material, which wasn't a film, but it could be made into one. Which is what he did. Two six hour films that make up a twelve hour saga.

Well, it is. It's responsible for everything in the GFFA. It created the Chosen One. It wants balance brought back to the Force. It pefers Jedi over Sith. Lucas had intended it to be a divine power, from the first draft in 1974. It's changed over the years from the spirits of the dead, to an energy feild with a sentient conscious. It sets the path before everyone and hopes that they follow their destiny to it's inevitable conclusion.

 

Excuse me but there aren't any mirrors shown in the meditation chamber and since Vader mentioned that the name "Anakin Skywalker" has no meaning to him anymore, then it makes sense that he would never look at himself in mirror knowing that it will remind him of the horror he committed on his wife, Padme. For example, in Face/Off when Sean Archer sees himself inside Castor Troy's face, he smashes the mirror and goes hysterical because he hated being inside the face of the man who killed his son.

Anakin HATES himself and nobody who hated themselves would ever look at their own reflection in the mirror.

It is when a person has flatlined for a few seconds before he is revived again and Anakin may have already died just as the mask was put on him which has brought him back to life.

It is possible for a person to die twice.

 

It is when a person has flatlined for a few seconds before he is revived again and Anakin may have already died just as the mask was put on him which has brought him back to life.

It is possible for a person to die twice.

yes it is possible for a person to die twice, and?

you are horribly strectching the subject at hand. may have already died? maybe is a figurative sense,as anakin was now vader, and anakin ceases to be, but literally? pfffffft.