Does Star Wars, as A Saga, Have Rivals?

Jackson has changed his movies since there release... and no one cries foul or that "Peter Jackson is Raping My Childhood"

Is it more Cromulent to Alter your movies if it is in a smaller time frame from the release?

Is it Ok to Alter AOTC and not ESB because of their release dates?

 

i love star wars but james bond does rival it , he would have worked out sidious and killed him ,maul, blown up everthing the trade fedaration had by the end of tpm. and it wouldnt have taken him two films to get into padme

 

I have no idea what cromulent means but if it is similar to apropo, then I would reckon that it probably is.

hey, we know there is more SW footage from the OT than Lucas has let out or that he will let out. Yet he continually reshapes and inserts new stuff in to his movies.

I doubt there is anything left on the cutting room floor for the LOTR movies. At 3+ hours how much more can there be?

Lucas has released the OT 3 times and we're coming up to the 4th - with no new unreleased footage! I suspect we'll be headed for a 5th release with some sort of new documentary in it.

 

danmcken: Your James Bond comment on getting into Padme is brilliant! lmao

 

genius comment indeed, Danmc

 

Allow me to add fuel to the Fire....according to the list generated at BOXOFFICEMOJO.COM We can start to seperate the two trilogies LOTR vs. Star Wars...At the BOMOJO site they have compiled many stats for movies, but the one that stands out most is the ajusted for inflation list, it puts all movies on equal footing, making ticket prices equal over the years, so the list is based on tickets sold more than dollars earned...on this list GONE WITH THE WIND is number one followed by Episode 4: A New Hope at #2, Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back #12, Episode 6: The Return of the Jedi #14, Episode 1: The Phantom Menace #19 and Episode 2: Attack ofthe Clones #76.......for the LOTR three we get these rankings, The Two Towers #53, Return of the King #54, and Fellowship of the Ring #67....hope this may out some things to rest......

check it out for yourself...

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted/

 

So our Averages acoording to Box office Mojo is

Star Wars Saga #24

LOTR #58

I would of put both Sagas much higher myself... I think the sum is greater than there parts.


By the Way Cromulent is a Simpsons Refference

And it's A Perfectly Cromulent word.

 

If we're going to talk about sagas across all art forms, let's do so. Let's include the epics of the Odyssey, the Illiad, the Aeneid, and Gilgamesh. Let's include Milton's poems Paradise Lost & Paradise Regained. Let's include Tolstoy's War & Peace and Shakespeare's Henry VI trilogy. Let's include the Bible.

Or, if we're going to discuss film sagas, let us not be distracted by the works of literature from which they were adapted. Let us separate the books about Frodo and Dumbledore from the film adaptations and just discuss the films.


Now, just looking at the films, what saga stands above all others?

Star Wars, clearly.

First, Star Wars is one of the few film franchises that is not an adaptation of an earlier work. The story was designed from the very beginning for the medium of film, for the audience gathered together in the darkened theater. Film is a unique coming together of visual cues, color, speed, and rhythm. Being able to focus on the particular strengths of the medium without being tied to the continuity of an original source should give Lucas an advantage.

I think it does: it allowed Lucas to create a franchise where each chapter is (more-or-less) self-contained while the whole is still greater than the sum of its parts. And within each chapter, Lucas could create individual cinematic moments without having to fret about faithfulness to an original source; he had the freedom to create a world of sword fights and dogfights just because those elements work so well on-screen.

Of the major franchises, only the Matrix and the Terminator movies have this advantage. Matrix flew apart by the end. And while T3 was quite enjoyable, it's not clear whether a coherent whole can be made with no one person guiding the creative vision.

Lord of the Rings, good as it may be, is not composed of self-contained movies because of its faithfulness to the books.


Second, like any truly epic saga, it does cover years, generations even. It doesn't just cover several battles in a single war; it covers several wars. It covers the rise and fall of a tyrannical empire, the death and rebirth of a noble knighthood.

Even on the personal level, we see an entire life unfold: a childhood of poverty, a brash youth of passion and temptation, a descent into darkness, an obsession over a son and heir, and a redemption and noble end.

In sheer scale of time, Doctor Zhivago, Braveheart, and Gone with the Wind may well rival Star Wars, but no modern film franchise has attempted the same.

One could summarize this point with a single-sentence summary of the inter-connectedness of Star Wars' masters and students:

Yoda trained Dooku who trained Qui-Gon who trained Obi-Wan who trained Anakin and Luke; Dooku betrayed his master, Anakin betrayed his master, and Luke redeemed his master's fallen apprentice.

No other film saga has a "geneology" of this depth.


Finally, Star Wars is not only a saga in every sense of the word, it is our saga. Sure, it has its wizards and dragons, knights and quests, but these elements are brought into our 20th- and 21st-century culture. There are cowboys of the Clint Eastwood variety, Han Solo and Boba Fett. There are WWI-style trench warfare and dogfights from WWII.

Tarzan. Nascar. Jazz. All these are echoed in Star Wars.

It's not just presented in our medium, it's told in our language.

 

Fantastic post Bubba_the_Genius, I agree with everything you wrote.

 

Bubba_the_Genius I have never seen a post that in depth about Star Wars until know.

 

I would have read your whole post which was fantastic but it's Snake Whacking Day and I need to head out to get my Whacker

 

This is the first time I've seen someone call themself a genius and actually back it up. Bravo Bubba.

I will try to meekly follow that.

First off, I didn't see Fellowship in the theatre, I had no desire. My brothers (who have read the books, I don't read alot...ADD) made me rent the DVD and I loved it. It suprised me how days later I couldn't stop thinking about it. But as Bubba said it's an adaptation of a book. Star Wars is not

As for the Matrix, I walked out at the end of the first one thinking "this could do it, that was f#%@ing awsome". Then the sequels SUCKED and the first one gets old after a few viewings. Star Wars does not.

Now for Star Trek, the first one makes no sence and would have never been made were it not for "Star Wars Mania". The second one is pretty good eccept for Ricardo's Fake boobs. The rest of them (I've lost count) aren't even memoriable. Star Wars is.

Harry Potter...please.

I think the question one needs to aks oneself is who would you rather be a Rider of Rohan or a Jedi Knight.

For my money I'll be a Jedi Knight any day (as long as I don't have a big q-tip head).

 

Star Trek is more of a universe now than a saga. I think its currency has been much devalued by the greedy and creatively moribund way the franchise has been milked in recent years. Still, Classic Trek is a huge part of popular culture, everyone knows Kirk and Spock even if they have never seen an episode or movie. Certain stories like The Wrath of Khan and City on the Edge of Forever stand out, but Star Trek has never been a planned saga as such.

The Matrix was always overated anyway, and the Wacker Brothers crucially missed an opportunity to actually give any of the characters a personality in the sequels while at the same time making a muddle out of the message of the first film.

Terminator 3 - please! This was a lame retread of T2 with Arnie giving his worst, self-parodic performance in the series (although it wasn't quite as embarrassing as his Mr Freeze!)

Apart from LOTR, the only real rivals to Star Wars as a saga are the Marvel and DC pantheons. We get origin stories for Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and co, we see them grow up, gain powers, develop their powers, fight evil, deal with gods and monsters. The characters' stories are interrelated, and we sometimes see (generally hypothetical) endings for their sagas. We see multiple versions of Superman's story, for example, much as the stories of classic mythology have been retold. Also, like Star Wars, the sagas have been adapted into many different media.

 

Everytime I see the original cut of Star Wars I am an eight year old seeing it for the first time. I like the special editions and I can't wait for them to be released. LOTR is great and I can watch them again and again, but they just don't have the appeal of Star Wars. The Matrix started off great but really let me down to the point of absurdity. Star Trek doesn't even register to me anymore.

 

Personally, I'm pleased that Star Wars has a rival as mighty and enjoyable as LOTR. And IMO it certainly isn't a negative rival. It also helps to remember that there is no rivallry between Lucas and Jackson. As far as I know they are friends and Lucas gave some advice to Jackson when he was making TTT and in an interview I read a couple of months ago, Jackson stated that he loved ALL the Star Wars films. I think we should be lucky to be living in such an ambitious era of filmaking, and should be appreciative of all the efforts involved in making these films that are enjoyed by so many people of all ages all over the world.

 

I will agree with Kal's comments about the Marvel and DC heroes. You can say that the Marvel universe is a complete huge saga, but this is true for the comics that run for so many decades now, and not for the movies. Anyone who reads comics on a regural basis knows that comic movie adaptations will never be equal to the originals.
Anyway, there is actually no saga in films that can really rival Star Wars, and I will one more time repeat that Star Wars is a constant, while the "rivaling" films change over the years (Star Trek, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, Batman, Terminator, Matrix, LOTR).

 

Hmmm. As described below in the sig, why not just love all three trilogies?

I'll describe what I love about the three.

First: Star Wars.
You all know why it is special. It is not because of SFX. It is because of the awesome athmosphere, the feeling that you want to be there, to be a Jedi, to own a lightsaber, to fly an X-Wing, to fight the Empire.

It had great morals about 'good' and 'evil', that there is a Dark Side in all of us, and it always tempts, and moreso those who wield power.

Second: LOTR.
Well, I think I will say that LOTR is from the cinematographical point of view the best. It has the best cinematography, the best costumes, the best acting and so on and so on of the trilogies, in my opinion. It is pure quality, and just good filmmaking. And the athmosphere is there, though it is not as profound as Star Wars. It is just good. These are one (well, three) of the few movies that make me cry when I see them.

Now, as for Matrix!
There are few Matrixfans left now, and I'm one. I love all three Matrix movies. There, I said it. I should know that Reloaded and Revolutions sucked and the Wachowski's are morons who deserve to die for their crimes against humanity.

But are these really your opinions, or are they the critics'? I cannot see that any Star Wars fan should have a high regard for the critics, you know how they can destroy good movies. They have always hated Star Wars, from ANH to AOTC, and they will hate Episode III, no matter whether we will love it or no.

What is it about Matrix? I belive it is the most intelligent trilogy of the three. Yes, I know about the philosophy of Star Wars and the morals of LOTR, but The Matrix simply opened my eyes, freed my mind. It changed me. It made me think. And since I have never looked at anything with the same eyes, and I believe the change is for the better.

And plus the philosophy, it is awesome sci-fi, awesome design, awesome fights, awesome SFX. The acting is not always good, but better than Star Wars, at least... (come on, admit it, Star Wars has always been poorly acted, even in the OT. )

And I believe that the reason people hate Reloaded and Revolutions is that people simply don't understand them. You have to know the original Matrix by hand to understand Reloaded, and you HAVE to see it twice to make any kind of sense to the Architect. I did, and I understood the guy perfectly on the second viewing.

Then, when people didn't understand Reloaded at all, they just couldn't comprehend Revolutions, which also required intensive viewings of the former movies. Plus it didn't quite end the way people thought it would, but the ending really means something, if you allow yourself to ponder it. It is not saying anything good about humanity, I tell you that, mainly because there are few good things to say.

So please, try to rid yourself of prejudice. Being a fan of one does not diminish the others. Try to watch them again with open eyes.

 

In terms of popular appeal, the two that come closest are Indiana Jones and James Bond -especially when you adjust for inflation. Raiders of the Lost Ark raked in over $531 million in today's dollars. Out of all the movies released since Raiders came out in 1981, only E.T., Titanic, and Return of the Jedi have done better at the box office. The other two Indiana Jones movies made over $300 million each.

Two Bond movies (Thunderball and Goldfinger) are in the top 50 all-time earners, and there are about twenty more where those came from. Bond had a HUGE effect on the world outside the movies. While Reagan's SDI scheme was nicknamed "Star Wars" those who opposed it, it was in fact based on the anti-missile weapons in Diamonds Are Forever. Also, the whole idea of outlaw groups buying, building or stealing NBCs (nuclear, biological, chemical weapons) and using them to blackmail or terrorize (or both) is the standard operating procedure of the villains in James Bond movies.

I don't think the LOTR movies are even in the same league (in quality or effect on society) as Indiana Jones or James Bond, let alone Star Wars.

 

Why hasn't Police Academy been mentioned?

We've seen several generations of troops graduate and move into enforcement.

We've seen the rise and fall of Mahoney. We've seen the fall of Zed and his rebirth as a cop.

We've see more change in Sweetchuck - from a hapless ceiling fan store owner to a full fledged police officer - than Sam from LOTR in terms of overcoming fear.

We've seen love blossom thru episodes 2-7 between Tackleberry and Callahan....

You have the wise master in Cmndt Lassard...

And to top it all off... you have Christopher Lee as Commandant Alexandrei Nikolaivich Rakov of Moscow's police force.

 

Bubba the Genius, that post was one of the most impressive pieces about SW I have ever read.

Does SW have rivals? Sure. So do the NY Yankees. So did Ali. So did Jordan. But we all know who's ultimately the champ.

 

Police Academy???
Pleeeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!

 

Who would have thought Lucas would cast someone from Police Academy 8 in his 5th Star Wars movie... wait, I guess that makes sense.


LOTR, as I think about it, isn't a saga. It's an epic.

 

I hope this doesn't mean Guttenberg will have a Cameo in III...

 

JMAX your nuts!!

Maybe in the Super special original special edition of AOTC they can replace Jango with Tackleberry!

 

never thoutgt about the bible it needs to be made into a good series of films, even though im a atheist i still think its a good story. its a good scifi book for ancient peoples and still is now ,dont know if sw will last as long