ST Does TFA reliance on OT imagery and plot points make it bad.

For Starkiller Base, yes. Otherwise, no. Everything besides Starkiller Base was an excellent homage to the OT.

 

I thought Starkiller Base was just a wink and a nudge; a homage to the OT. The purpose of this film was to give us our core cast of characters, their first stage of growth and establish the state of the GFFA circa 30 years after ROTJ. I think it succeeds at this while being a funny, action packed, tight, cutting and emotional ride. It doesn't give you time to dislike it in the theater. If you meet a character you don't like then BAM here is someone you will like. How about this? The one problem is this leaves great responsibility on VIII and IX to give us new adventures, more growth for our characters and the true statement of the trilogy. Poe is a crack pilot and a good guy so now what? Rey is our core hero and she is edgy, tough, independent and highly gifted both technically and in the force but she has holes in her memory and her story so now what? I could go on... We have our pieces, we have our game board. The money has been distributed. Now comes the first roll of the die, Rian.

 

It's the weakness of the film, but there are so many other strengths that more than make up for it. That said, I hope the next one has a more original plot.

 

A perfectly fair critique.
This is the state of galaxy as of ep VII...

The Galaxy is being threatened by tyrannical militants, who are lead by a powerful dark sider who's chief agent is an emotionally unstable man that had previously been a Jedi.

The Jedi turned dark side enforce also helped to destroy the Jedi Order.

The Tyrannical Militants are being opposed by a Rag-Tag militia that uses outdated and second hand equipment.

The Light siders are a Jedi Master that survived the fall of the order and was the teacher of the Jedi turned dark side enforcer, who went into self imposed exile in the wake of his failure, and a force sensitive of prodigious potential with natural talent for mechanics and piloting that was hidden on a desert planet.

Look similar yes, the galaxy be in near identical condition no.

This is beyond "similar" the frame work is nigh identical as are elements of the set dressing and character types and roles.
When I want the OT I will watch the OT, I don't want a sequel to try and do for me what its predecessor did I want it to do its own thing.

 

No. It was awesome. I think that was the intention when planning a first star wars movie in such a long time (first in not 10 but 32 years in some people' mind)

 

I think it really comes down to this.

For those who HATED the PT and believe the OT to be the ONLY standard for Star Wars, then no, they do not think TFA was bad in this regard because TFA was basically a fanservice movie meant to please the PT haters.

I've always said this, the next 5 years or so Disney is going to be doing pretty much a OT fanservice tour with EP7-EP9 along with the Death Star, Han Solo, and Boba Fett films. After this, Disney will have to really get creative and expand upon the Universe which means exploring territory that is not related to the OT. Star Wars to many is BIGGER than just the OT but for some reasons, many PT haters has this idea that if it isn't the OT, then it isn't Star Wars. Some of the greatest Star Wars stories had NOTHING to do with the OT such as KOTOR and the Dawn of the Jedi comics.

I just hope that eventually SW fans comes to their senses and realize that Disney does not care to "Grow" Star Wars in terms of EU but rather just want to grow the fanbase by regurgitating OT related content to somehow attempt to get the "PT sour taste" out of our mouths.


I will get bashed for what I said but I will just put it like this....it may seem cool and hip to hate on the PT now, but in a few years when SW fans sees that Disney is just telling the same ole stories over, they will realize that all their PT hate and talk about GL killing the franchise will be nothing like what Disney is doing. At least the PT was creative and introduced new things. You mean to tell me that 30-years after ROTJ the Republic just happens to use the SAME X-Wing model as they did 30-years ago and the FO uses the SAME Tie-Fighter model from 30-years ago? This is an example here of how the lack of creativity and imagination went into TFA because they wanted to "stay close" to the originals.

Don't worry, it will backfire....

 

While true for Grevious, this is completely untrue for Maul and Dooku. Maul is a silent assassin, and Dooku is a politician warrior. I would not include either of them in the mustache twirling bad guy category.

 

I find it absolutely true in regards to Dooku. His character could have had potential, he was certainly played by a talented actor. But he was never developed. We didn't meet him until way too late in episode 2 and he was almost immediately killed in episode 3. No growth and very very little was ever presented to explain his motivations. We're told he was a Jedi master who resigned from the order to enter politics. Suddenly, he's a Sith Lord. That's a pretty huge leap with no exposition to explain it.

 

And back when the PT was ongoing, many people were insulting the PT by saying that it sucks due to the lack of "nostalgia" and that it was too disconnected from the OT tone wise. Do those people not come across as elitist or insulting to those with a different viewpoint? (in this case, people who enjoy the PT).

Funny how the argument changes when the shots being fired are in your direction.

 

Short answer: No. I think TFA is great.

 

Not as far as I'm concerned. For me, characters are what matter the most and in that regard the writers, director and actors got it dead right this time round.

 

Well, GL thought better of it, even though it was Luke's original name. JJ and co. took this opportunity quite wisely imo.

MJ

 

If it ain't broke why fix it.....

 

The TIE fighters looked upgraded, they're never seen as two seaters in the OT. By the way look at the service life of actual military aircraft. Many have exceeded 30 years. Google F16 and B52

 

No it doesn´t make it bad. Just terribly uninspired.

 

Ok so if I get this right now, what people thought was wrong and bad with the PT movies was that they wanted them to be more like the OT movies. Now that Abrams made TFA with a a lot of nostalgic touches people are saying it is bad? Guys make up your mind! How do you want it to be? Like the OT or not? Yes a third Death Star was maybe a bad idea but if you really think about it id didn´t have that much of a role in the movie. It was just something that Abrams put in so that they could rescue Rey from something. I absolutely loved TFA. All the throwbacks to ANH made me really feel like home, like it was Star Wars! And what I feel people are missing a lot in this movie is that it is one of 3 not the one and only. We will get a lot of things explained for us in the upcoming movies, like why Rey was put on Jakku by her parents and who they really are. After all it´s a TRILOGY. TESB was the same! Left us with many questions of how it should end with Han and Vader as Luke´s father. All we need to do is wait for Episode VIII.

 

for years I heard Fanboys and media saying they wanted something more like the OT now we got that and It still Is not good enough ?

@Berry Kenobi I see you have reiterated exactly what I said, I agree with everything you said!!!!!!

 

From what i've seen this complaint comes from a very very tiny minority of posters on various message boards and from ultra PT fanboys who are very loud. As well as that, it is possible for a story to be unoriginal and yet ultimately satisfying and great.

TFA has received critical & public acclaim and is an absolute smash at the box office. Which is amazing in an era when movie goers seem to want everything spoonfed to them and all answers tied up. Even on this message board, with the most nitpicky OTT nerds like us that pull apart everything it averages at 7.6/10 in the vote.

 

If people made the insults, then yes it's a problem. But I never done that. I've never begrudge people who loved the PT, fair enough.

Also, there's a different between insulting the films (which is what you seem to be saying happened), and insulting the PEOPLE who love the films (which is what has really been getting on my nerves). You want to criticize the film, fair enough go ahead. It's when people start essentially calling people who do like it shallow idiots who don't know what they're talking, about and are easily blinded by "nostalgia" or "pretty visuals," that I draw the line. And that has been happening A LOT.

So no, for me nothing that you've said changes the argument at all. Because you seemed to have the point that I was trying to make completely.

 

Oh sorry I didn´t see your post. I agree with you as well!

 

The people most disappointed seem to be the avid readers and readers tend to crave new original plot lines more than most. Readers are also more likely to be wannabe fan writers and therefore read more about the writing process and think more about plot and where they would personally take Star Wars. So, I can understand how some of those folks are wondering about the hype here but I really think those folks need to consider the following:

1) Prior to the sale there was a very good chance of us never getting new Star Wars movies at all. Now, we get spin offs and a brand new trilogy and there's a considerable amount of talent involved. Pick your battles. Star Wars is back. Aren't you feeling at least a little fortunate to be able to enjoy this universe again in an IMAX theatre?

2) As a result of the prequels unpopularity long-term it was all but a given that a soft reset was coming. While it messed with the EU cannon as well as some of what we know from
the past movies... It could have been much worse or a much more drastic reset. Instead, the reset was about as soft as can be expected and we were able to experience new sequences and paradigm shifts. We get to experience time as a Trooper traitor. We get a new Skywalker family plot but this time with the son being turned and betraying his father rather than the reverse. We get to see Luke in a brand new way and at a new time in his life.

3) Given that we knew there was going to be a new protagonist set up we expected a small origin story and anyone who follows comics knows that the real fun begins once you can get through the origin setup elements which are always familiar. Look, I like Jedi training stuff, too, but did we really need to spend more time spreading out her development and training just "because that's how it's always been done in the past?" Drawing is out more would have made this feel even more familiar. Now that it's accelerated it allows for more possibilities in VIII and IX.

4) Rian Johnson is up next with the board fully set for a lot of fun possibilities. If the next one fails to deliver experiences wholly new and fresh then your criticisms will have more merit. Early reports on the script are good and given his past work I fully expect more risks and new, darker plot points from the villains.

5) TFA delights despite the familiarity. That's no small feat and if those elements didn't bring some of a sense of joy or some laughs then you might not enjoy aspects of the Star Wars experience as much as many of us other fans. Despite the familiarity I was very delighted to spend time with the characters old and new and enjoy the situational humor and dark moments from the villains.

6) Some people have a very narrow area of fiction that writers need to hit in order to be pleased. Many of these people are wannabe writers themselves and so essentially they want books and movies to deliver everything they dreamt up and more. You might be one of these types.

 

Its only one of the reasons why this film is bad.There are many more.

 

And yet, it's a phenomenal film.

Can't wait for ep VIII!!

 

I agree. However, that kid stopped a blaster bolt with the force. If he does ever reach those heights, he's gonna be scary powerful. He might not even need a saber. Luke or Leia needs to redeem this kid and bring him back to the light ASAP because at this rate, he's gonna be 10 handfulls when he gets to be their age.

 

In star wars, all the skywalkers lose a fight, an arm, a hand, or take a mean blow from a wookie bazooka before they become iconically powerful.