ST Does TFA undermine the prequels?

No I am just pointing out how stupid that joke is and the whole Plaguise thing is in general.

 

It doesn't undermine anything yet. In fact, even if it goes with the idea that the force was never balanced, that doesn't undermine Anakin. Kylo was speaking to the Vader mask. Anakin/Vader is still a part of this saga. For all we know, Anakin is not done putting the force back into balance. Death wasn't the end for him after all. His force presence is still out there somewhere.

Kylo's promise to finish what Vader started could refer to the balance. I don't know if that scene of Kylo needing guidance is supposed to be him being unhinged or if Vader has shown himself to his grandson. That would be a twist to this whole saga: Anakin/Vader's ghost is the one pulling the strings with both Kylo and Rey, and the end result is to bring balance to the force and restore peace to a galaxy that's been in conflict since Anakin was young.

 

Not any more than it undermines the OT. I mean, sure it pretty much craps all over the idea of Jedi training and progression, but it also craps all over the happy OT ending and Luke's skills as a Jedi teacher.

 

Are you people serious?

 

The OT ending was a happy moment in time. If we think about the galaxy as a whole, there was no way that was a final happy ending. There was a lot left unfinished with the Empire and the resistance was still just a rebel group. They had a lot of conflict to look forward to. It reminds me of a fairytale. It can end with 'and they all lived happily ever after' but we know there's realistically a boatload of problems ahead.

As for Luke's skills as a teacher, he's not any worse than Yoda (who trained Sith Dooku) or Obi-Wan (Vader).

 

the Jedi really messed up in the prequels may be Anakin wasn't even the chosen one from a certain point of view?

 

I agree with you, on the happy ending part, but the duration of that length of time is what makes the victory feel worth it.
We knew that thee had to be an enemy, but the movie starts and already the good guys are on the backfoot and the bad guys have the advantage.
We don't know how long ago the New Order first for formed, but judging from their size and organization it's been a significantly long time.

Onto my second point, I'm not calling Luke a bad teacher, because his student went bad (that's an individual choice.) I'm calling him a bad teacher, because as far as we know he didn't make an effort to save him.
We saw both Yoda and Obi-Wan confront their apprentices and try to bring them back. Sure, Luke might do that in the future, but so far we haven't seen it; instead he's hiding without even trying.

 

Yes, TFA does undermine the original Saga. The prophecy was to bring balance to the Force, which has canonically been explained as vanguishing the dark side. By reintroducing villains using the dark side of the force immediately after the demise of Palpatine, you undermine the original Saga. Period. There is no defending that.

Now that's not to say that we can't enjoy TFA and it's sequels. I thoroughly enjoyed TFA and can't wait to see what happens next! But you're just trying to fool yourself if you're arguing that TFA doesn't undermine the Saga in some ways. But that's fine. Whatever. The prophecy of the original Saga looks like it's being ret conned to mean "destroy the Sith" instead of "Destroy the dark side". Well, that is until they reintroduce Sith somewhere down the road... then they'll just explain it away, and the prophecy of the original Saga will be 100% completely meaningless.

 

The overwhelming feeling I'm getting from fans in general is that they want their cake and they Want to be able to eat it too. No matter what film was made, people were going to be pissed off. If it was closer to the prequels, the fans of the OT would have been upset. If it was closer to the OT, the fans of the prequels would have been upset. If it was its own film, fans of all of the above would have been upset. People want the story to be moved on, but remaining "true to what Star Wars is supposed to be" in their eyes. They want new characters, but wanted the old ones too. People complain that Han was killed, people complain that the story was too safe. People want canon, people want whatever Lucas wanted. Or didn't want. They expect the hero(ine) to have her own path, but are upset she didn't follow the same path as Luke. Then complain that the film is too similar to ANH.

Abrams was damned if he fid, and damned if he didn't. It's no wonder he almost passed on it. (And would have been damned there too!)

Honestly, why can't people just enjoy the film for what it is?

 

Because Star Wars fans like to bitch.

 

Given that Lor San Tekka, in one of the earliest scenes in the film, refers to the "Balance of the Force," I'd say that TFA is perfectly respectful of the prequels.

 

"A prophecy that mis-read, could have been"

 

One thing that Babylon 5 made clear in its pseudo-epilogue was that the fight never really stops. There's always some new threat or danger that must be resisted. I see this continuation being the same thing. Just because the Emperor was defeated, it didn't mean that all the other selfish people stopped being selfish or the galaxy became an utopia (it wasn't great before Palpatine remember). There will always be the Dark Side, just as there will always be the Light Side.

 

Who's to say bringing balance to the Force, doesn't involve practitioners of both Light and Dark sides working together to fully know the Force.

 

The way I see it, the Empire vs Resistance thing never really ended. The Empire just branched off to create The First Order. There was a lull in the violence, but not really an end to the conflict. I get that, that might bother people. They won the battle but the war is ongoing. I just don't think it undermines the OT. The OT ended on a happy time in their life, but it didn't promise a great future.

I agree about Luke if he really is just running. It's hard to imagine he faced Kylo and lost considering Kylo is not fully trained. I think there's going to be more to that story though. If they're echoing the OT, I figure they'll be some game-changing secret held by Luke.

 

I think that Maz set up the central theme of this trilogy. There has always been evil and there always will be. New generations of heroes must rise up and fight. No victory is complete, as those on the side of light must remain eternally vigilant.

The Jedi of the Republic era had become complacent and dogmatic and failed to see the evil right under their noses. They believed that the Sith were extinct in TPM. Maz is not a Jedi but she seems like she shares Qui-Gon's view of the Force. Qui-Gon saw things more clearly than did the rest of the Jedi of his time, just as Maz sees the cyclical nature of the conflict between good and evil.

So no, TFA does not undermine the PT. Nor the OT, for that matter.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

No. TFA does not undermine the prequels. If anything, it fortified them with its nods to them(clones, balance of the force, etc).

 

No, it doesn't.

 

anakin is the chosen one people. he destroyed the sith in ep 6. prophecy fulfilled. the end.

 

I love that prophecy because it's so delightfully vague. Obi Wan certainly thought it meant Anakin would destroy the Sith, but that was just his understanding of it. Certainly Anakin took the Sith down, but is that really what was meant by balance? What if it just meant that the Jedi teachings had grown too insular and disconnected from the galaxy? If the Force has gone out of balance again... well I'd blame Luke. Without a new batch of Jedi the Dark Side is running rampant. Whatever balance means it seems pretty clear that you require Jedi to achieve it.

 

Yoda's "A prophecy that misread could have been" stands out.
We never gained a full understanding of what that prophecy meant. Obi-Wan asks whether he is not the one to destroy the Sith…
What is clear is that Anakin toppled both Force user establishments. In ROTS, he helped destroy the Old Jedi Order. In ROTJ, his redemption brought an end to the Sith. His offspring/descendants would determine the future of any new organizations.
I don't see TFA as undermining Anakin's significance.

 

There were nods to both the PT and OT. So I don't think it underminded anything. If anything it celebrated the things that made each trilogy special and unique. I loved seeing the Pod racing flags.

 

This!

I foresee that the final movie will see the true return of the Jedi to the status of Guardians of Peace & Justice in the New (new) Republic. From the new cannon being established between ROTJ and TFA, it seems that The Resistance is playing a role best suited for Jedi.
The difference is that the new breed of Jedi will be more focused on the Living Force as opposed to their ivory tower philosophies which got them in trouble in the first place.

 

If TFA undermines anything it's the friendship between Luke, Han, and Leia from the OT. Dramatically brought down my enjoyment of the movie. If I judged the movie solely on the new characters, I'd give it like an A. I can't do that though. I have to acknowledge the story. That Han and Leia left each other. That Luke deserted the two of them. This stuff just really brings down my enjoyment of the movie.

TFA, which I like and acknowledge as a great movie, made me appreciate TPM, the prequels, and George more. So for me, it enhanced my appreciation for the prequels rather than undermining the prequels.

 

I hardly understand the movie's view on the Force and balance in the first place. It's too black-and-white for me to appreciate. So, I don't feel that the Prequel movies were undermined.