Does the Duel prove that Obi-Wan is better dueler than Anakin?

obi-wan raises his saber and lets himself die,he was holding his own until that.

 

Actually it does matter because Obi-Wan thought to himself during the second duel, "Hey, I've beaten him before, might as well just let him kill me so I can keep my track record of 1-0 against Anakin."

Just not convinced that Vader won that fight since Obi-Wan sacrificed himself.

Better yet, I guess Lennox Lewis is a better fighter than Vitali Klitschko because Lewis won that fight. (For those who aren't boxing fans, Vitali was winning that fight until they stopped it because of a bad cut)

 

[looks around the room] Yes [quickly scurries out again]

 

I'm not going to say much on this topic, but I will say this.................

Obi-Wan got lucky, o so lucky.

 

Obi-Wan is awesome no doubts there...but he will get lucky...guys ITS GONNA HAPPEN...wait and see

 

"Obi-Wan is awesome no doubts there"

Dang straight... Still I follow through with what I know, Anakin is a better fighter.

 

yes lucky enougf to create an anakin lava bisque.

 

The duel proves that no matter how powerful you are if you let your emotions rule you will fall into lava and get all your skin burned off. That is all. You can all go now.

 

Wow, I have to disagree with many of the posters here claiming that "winning the fight that counts makes you the best." That is so far from the truth, it isn't funny. Someone mentioned that team sports are not a good analogy. I also disagree with that assumption, but I'll use "boxing" since that's so far the only one not being railed against.

Let's look at how I see Muhammad Ali. Was he the best fighter in the world? Eh... personally? No. In terms of technique, power, precision, etc, Ali was really good, but he wasn't "the absolute master" of it. This can be seen in some of his matches that he may have "won" but needed to use alternative methods to gain victory. No, it wasn't cheating, but he was using everything he had. The best "boxer" or "man?" Sure, I'll say he was. But if you ever see the famous "Rope-a-Dope" fight, you can see that for the most part, Ali sometimes couldn't actually stand up to some of his opponents. This doesn't diminish his status as one of the greatest boxers... but I would never agree that his punching technique in boxing was the best. A cunning warrior, but not the best of the best.

This is what happens with the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan duel. Straight on, Obi-Wan simply can't stand up to Anakin. When we see Obi-Wan win this fight, it will be on "The slope" with Anakin's emotions on fire. Obi Wan is essentially going to Rope-a-Dope Anakin.

We'll see that Obi-Wan, like Ali, is an intellectual fighter. He's a brilliant strategist. He's the negotiator. Not the "Man Without Fear." He wins fights not by his "superior skills" but by his superior being.

Ali versus Foreman. Foreman was a monster. His technique was good and powerful. He could "outpunch" and massacre Ali. But in the ring, Ali did what Obi Wan will do against Anakin. He'll hold him off. He'll survive the viscious blows. He'll work his head, get him riled up. Make him wear himself out with the Dark Side and all that "brand new power" he has. Obi Wan will not defeat Anakin with some superior strike or well-landed combination. No... he's going to just wait and then pick him apart.

So yes, Obi Wan is the "better man" in that fight. He's the greatest opportunist and centered individual there is. But he's also the David in a David vs. Goliath fight. David isn't a better fighter than Goliath just because "he shot him." He's the better man, but Goliath against David in a straight on, skills to skills match... it's no contest. Goliath all the way.

It's really quite simple. Anakin can probably defeat a whole slew of opponents with skills alone. But Obi Wan wins his matches because his mind is superior to Anakin.

Finally, I'd like to take issue with another posters ideas about Obi Wan's "dueling victories."

Maul vs. Obi was not a singular victory. Obi Wan won that match because of a huge combination of events.

1.) Qui Gon already demonstrates in the middle of TPM that he can't actually stand up to Maul. Maul literally "mauls" him in the desert fight.

2.) Qui Gon and Obi Wan double team Maul for an extended period, in which Obi Wan essentially "loses" each match up, but because of his clear mind, and the Will of the Force, he survives each time. He is truly a great Jedi, but still not "the best fighter."

3.) Obi Wan matches up to Maul finally, but keep in mind that Maul has been busy in a two-on-one contests, one-on-one contests times two, and then a revenge match. That's a lot of fighting... and he still technically "won" the fight... but he lost focus and didn't finish the race. Obi Wan wins because his mind is superior... not his skills.

 

Of course it does, Obiwan wins.

Considering that in the only other fight they have Obiwan gets bored and sacrifices himself to Vader you can be pretty certain that Obiwan rules.

Hell, he even kicked darth mauls ass by himself.

 

A good analogy for Sabre fighting ability might be Chess ratings. For those who aren't familiar, if you know the chess ratings of two players you can, with pretty decent accuracy, calculate the odds that either player will win a given game. The higher the rating the stronger the player.

Anyway, you can think of Anakin as the all-time greatest chess player and Obiwan as a very strong grandmaster. Most of the time Anakin is going to win, but, depending on circumstances, Obiwan is a threat to win every game. Even the best chess players will tell you that they have moments of blindness and lose to inferior players. And that doesn't mean they aren't the better player. It just means they lost.

 

I'd like to say Obi-Wan.

 

Neobaggins how can the student never become better than their master?

I didnt say "never". Look at Lucas- the students hes taught are kicking his ass consistantly.

But Obiwan isnt over-the-hill like my old gym teacher. It is said in ROTS that Anakin doesnt take time to enhance his saber skills. This is why he is easily disarmed when given two sabers. He should have been able to use them. Thats why Obiwan threw an another one to him in the first place. Then Dooku all but toys with him until he check-mated the dance and lopped his arm off. Anakin doesnt become more obediant or responsible. He gets worse and reckless as he goes down the line. If he hadnt been practicing then, what would make him practice now as he becomes even more out of control? Even less believable that he would practice enough to surpass his teachers. I think this is one of those things that wernt thoroughly thought out. Anakins Midichlorians and super-force power will now equate to dueling skills. That is in fact if his saber skills are apparently better than Obiwans in the film.

"Link, I need to learn saber skills much greater than my masters. Load up the saberskill extreme program."-Anakin in theSabertrix

 

prolly not anakin is still the best

 

If Anakin let's his emotions get the best of him then that makes him a weaker fighter. That's his own fault! He loses horribly. He clearly will not be able to take obi wan down. The clear evidence is that the duel is so long. If Anakin is so superior the duel would be quick a la Dooku v. ani and obi in aotc.

But it's not. Obi Wan clearly holds his own, takes ani's best anger management attack and kills him.

Ani has done nothing to deserve any titles. I don't care about quotes. Show me the money. On screen, Ani is run of the mill. And in the end he gets killed by Obi. The true hero of the PT.

 

Lets say that again...

THE TRUE HERO OF THE PT : Obiwan Kenobi

 

does anyone mind if I repeat this quote?

Obi-Wan of course defeats Anakin in Ep3, but winning one fight does not necessarily make one the best at it. - NG

 

Anakin IS a better Dueler, but we all know that Obi-Wan wins or at least, that he is the one that gets out of the duel with his body intact.

"The duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived. Obi-Wan taught Anakin and Anakin has gone past him. But when you get to that duel, it's emotional. That's where the mistake will be made. And if you know the characters, you know Obi-Wan isn't going to get emotional and he doesn't make mistakes." - NG

"Hayden and I go at each other for a such bloody long time but of course I win." - EM

In the Jedi levels of lightsaber fighting, Obi-Wan is an eight, while Anakin, Yoda and Darth Sidious are nines. - Homing Beacon

 

Ani has done nothing to deserve any titles. I don't care about quotes. Show me the money. On screen, Ani is run of the mill. And in the end he gets killed by Obi. The true hero of the PT.


Ani will be an hero of the Clone Wars. He will beat Dooku, who beated OB easily. He will be blamed for this, altough OBiwan did the same thing with Maul in TPM.

Obiwan is the hero, but this movie is all about Anakin.

Back to the subject... I really like the Foreman - Ali analogy. OBiwan will be defensive all the way cause he won't be able to match Anakin with power. He will exhaust him, make him angry, make him loose control. He will keep his concentration and that's what will make him win.

He's not better, HE WAS JUST MORE READY FOR THAT FIGHT

In ANH, Obiwan let himself get killed, but he was clearly losing the fight.

 

fokes, CLEARLY there has to be something said about Master vs Apprentice, right? certainly, everyone has their weaknesses...and i believe that the "seasoned, experienced" Obi Wan that we know and love now has documented these things about anakin simply because it's his job to point them out to Anakin himself in order to improve them. i also agree that i am not so sure that old-and-crunchy obi wan in ANH could not have handled himself very well against the likes of darth vader had he not committed hari-jedi. all said, i believe that anakin's potential was/is greater but the wisdom of the ages will win out in this particular situation.... besides, obi wan aint old...he's still young...in his thirties, maybe. here's another question for you...how would EpIII anakin fare against Ep I Maul?

 

Despite Anakin being more powerful and skillful than Obi Wan, thats not saying Obi Wan is weak? The difference between them is a few percent in terms of power and ability, but Obi Wan has some advantages over Anakin- particularly experience and knowledge. Hence Obi Wan would probably win between 4/5 times out of 10 against Anakin. There is not much in it!

Anakin EP3 Vs Maul EP1 would probably be one of the most aggressive and brilliant duels of all time. I would say Anakin will likely win this one- but it would be close however- real real close. What a pity that Maul never survived EP1 to see this potentially great duel.

 

No. Anakin is stronger and better. But, he has some strikes against him.
He does not have full control of his emotions.
He's arrogant.

OB1 has more control, and more importantly, more experience.

 

Poker said: Ani will be an hero of the Clone Wars. He will beat Dooku, who beated OB easily. He will be blamed for this, altough OBiwan did the same thing with Maul in TPM.

I have not heard any rumor where ani is ?blamed? for the death of Dooku. I don?t think it will be perceived by the Jedi as a bad thing at all.
And as for the Dooku beating Obi Wan easily in AOTC, he also beat Anakin easily!!! Clearly Ani has gotten stronger and better and I am sure Obi Wan as well.

Obiwan is the hero, but this movie is all about Anakin.

Fair enough. As long as we agree that Obi Wan is in fact the hero. I think he is the hero of the entire trilogy.

Back to the subject... I really like the Foreman - Ali analogy. OBiwan will be defensive all the way cause he won't be able to match Anakin with power. He will exhaust him, make him angry, make him loose control. He will keep his concentration and that's what will make him win.

Well in that case he is BETTER. Man, are you really trying to say that Foreman was the ?better fighter???? How could he be? Was he stronger? Yes. But in the end he was outboxed and defeated. Convincingly defeated. And so will Ani when he is taking his lava bath.

And let?s not forget that there have been MANY rumors about Obi Wan chopping off Anakin?s limbs before his lava swim anyway. So what about that Anakin supporters???? Obi Wan comes out without a scratch but also takes off Ani?s arms and legs. And he?s still not better????

He's not better, HE WAS JUST MORE READY FOR THAT FIGHT
Well I would say being ready for a fight is an integral part of being a better fighter. That Ani can?t get himself ready is a sign of weakness.

In ANH, Obiwan let himself get killed, but he was clearly losing the fight.

Fine. I will concede that point to you. But in their prime, Obi Wan was better. Which is why he skewers, dismembers and then grills Ani with a nice molten gravy.

 

I beg to differ with the Anakin EP3 vs Maul Ep1 theory. Maul was a FAR BETTER swordsman, POLISHED in the darkside since birth. in truth, he took on two, FULLY trained jedi, simultaneously and more than held his own, took out a master and had obi wan on the ropes. the diff between obi and anakin is the coolness factor, which anakin would not have had. i say, Maul's directed and focused rage would have trumped Anakin's blind fury and if we are talkin about sword skills, is this even a discussion still? of course, none of us has seen Ep3 Anakin in action, so it's all moot. sorry if this belongs in another post.

 

The only reason anyone around here can even argue that Anakin is the better fighter is for NG's quote. Which isn't confirmed by anything as of yet except his opinion and perhpas GL saying Anakin is the "most powerful".

First the fight will be determined by GL not NG. GL is going to be editing the fight to serve the story. I believe GL will show that Anakin only believes he's the best, but will be proven not as good as Obi-Wan. For one we have Vader's quote that says "The last time we met I was but the learner. Now I am the master." (paraphrasing there). Which clearly indicates that Vader got owned by Obi-Wan and was taught some powerful lessons. This will not be made a false statement by GL, I guarantee it.

Second the "most powerful" quote refers to Force power not saber skills. Anakin has never been shown to be that great of a saber fighter. In fact Obi-Wan tells him that he only thinks he's as good as Yoda. Another words, Anakin's greatness is in hiw own mind. He's great in clairvoyance, strength, piloting, maybe he'll even learn to move big objects. But nothing indicates that he's some wondrous saber fighter, where would he have had the time to improve from one movie to the next. He's been fighting in the war.

Everyone makes excuses for why Anakin lost, but the fact is he did. However all those reasons point to Anakin having major weaknesses. Be it concentration, emotionalism, recklessness.

All the spoilers we've seen so far indicates that in every fight he has he gets help from Sidious in some way. Sidious betrays Dooku and Anakin betrays Mace. He's given unfair advantage in both cases. If anyone's the recipient of luck its Anakin.