Does the Duel prove that Obi-Wan is better dueler than Anakin?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by HagentheSith, Jan 15, 2005.

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  1. Darth-Tantalus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Topic One Anakin/Kenobi Duel
    I don't think that Obi-Wan is the better dueler. However I do think:

    1. Obi-Wan is Anakin's worst matchup because he too familiar with his fighting style from years of sparring.

    2. Anakin's emotions and pride offset his superior strength.

    3. Obi-Wan, like any of the top Jedi is good enough to hang around waiting for a mistake. He took advantage of Anakin's rashness. We saw what happens when his opponents don't make mistakes (Dooku) which leads me to

    Topic Two
    I don't think Sidious interfered in the fight between our heroes and Dooku. Why would he?

    1. Dooku has Obi-Wan's number. He knows it and pressed the advantage. For those who think Dooku isn't powerful enough to handle the two Jedi, or that he could use such a devastating force combo on Obi-wan, watch the Clone Wars cartoons or read the Clone Wars novels. He is that powerful. He seems to be underestimated by a lot of people. Remember, he was already number two on the Jedi totem before he left, augment that with mastery of the Sith arts.

    2. Sidious need not interfere between Dooku and Anakin, he knows Dooku won't kill Anakin, he ordered him NOT to.
  2. Calloway_of_light Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2003
    star 3
    Well while this is off topic;

    While Batman is certainly one of the premier fighters in the world what enables him to hang with the big dogs is his incredible intellect and a willingness to do whatever is necessary. He is the most dangerous man on the planet and given time to prepare there is no one he couldn't defeat. Like Kurt Busiek said if given time to prepare he could defeat Galactus. Not sure how, but he could. ;)

    Anakin at the time of ROTS was younger than Obi-wan was in TPM and yet he more powerful than any Jedi save for perhaps Yoda or Mace with whom he might have been equal. Obi-wan did well against Maul during TPM but was still obviously less skilled. If Anakin had faced Maul during his ROTS days he would have destroyed him in short order just as he did the more powerful Dooku. Obi-wan showed skill not in the climax of the duel but throughout the duel in just being able to keep up with Anakin for as long as he did. His not being eviscerated in short order speaks more of his ability than any of his prior performances in the other movies can. He like Batman did what he had to do to win, more power to him, but it doesn't make him a better duelist.
  3. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    topic one is the truth. i agree.

    excerpt from LOE

    The greater prize, Sidious had told Dooku during their most recent communication, was Anakin Skywalker.
    "Long have you watched him," Dooku has said, repeating words Sidious himself had spoken.
    "Longer than you know, Lord Tyranus. Longer than you know.
    And the time has come to test him again."

    "his skills, my lord?"
    "The depth of his anger. His willingness to go beyond The FORCE, as the jedi know it, and to call on th epower of the dark side. General Grievous will activate a special beacon that will call Skywalker and Kenobi back to Coruscant, and onto the stage we will set for them."
    But not capture them.
    "You will duel them," Sidious had said. "Kill Kenobi. His only purpose is to die and, in so doing, ignite young Skywalker to tap the depths of his fear and rage. Should you defeat Skywalker easily, then we will know that he is not prepared to serve us. Perhaps he never will be prepared. Should he by some fluke best you, however, I will control the outcome to spare you any unnecessary embarrassment, and we will have gained a powerful ally. But above all you must make the contest appear real, Lord Tyranus."
    "I will treat it as if it were my crowning achievement,"
    Dooku had promised.

    Sidious need not interfere between Dooku and Anakin, he knows Dooku won't kill Anakin, he ordered him NOT to.

    see above.
  4. Darth-Tantalus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Again, it seems that it is a matter of opinion as to what is meant by that passage. ROTS seems to indicate that Dooku wasn't %100 in the fight.

    Yet, the LOE passage indicates that he is to go full bore.

  5. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    While Batman is certainly one of the premier fighters in the world what enables him to hang with the big dogs is his incredible intellect and a willingness to do whatever is necessary. He is the most dangerous man on the planet and given time to prepare there is no one he couldn't defeat. Like Kurt Busiek said if given time to prepare he could defeat Galactus. Not sure how, but he could.

    busiek is wrong. period. darkseid need i say more. batman has limits, this much is certain, while he is the ost dangerous man alive he there are still things even he couldn't plan on. IMPERIEX, do i even need to say anything else. ddomsday? ha, there is nothing batman could plan on, that would allow him to take on the villians i have mentioned, every hero has limits, even the bat. much like kenobi.
  6. Calloway_of_light Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2003
    star 3
    As we have really no indication in the movie proper that Dooku was holding back I tend to disregard novelisations and go with what we see, which is Anakin destroying Dooku. He was more powerful and better skilled. It's no shame to lose to the Chosen One after all. ;)
  7. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    i agree, there is no shame in losing to chosen one, at all.
  8. Calloway_of_light Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2003
    star 3
    Certainly he has limits. He requires the time to plan. Without said time he would lose to far more powerful characters. However he destroys Superman in a number of great stories and in one memorable storyarc tactics he devised were used to defeat the entire JLA. All he needs is a little time. ;)
  9. Darth-Tantalus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2005
    I suppose there is no shame in losing to the Chosen One.

    It just seems odd to lose to Analin like that only to have him lose to Obi-Wan, a man Dooku embarrassed twice.

    Also, the belief that "of course he beat Dooku, why would he have a problem " is symptomatic of the phenomenon of underestimating Dooku's power. People are prejudiced because he isn't an arch-type one dimensional villain like Maul. Because he doesn't do needless back flips people assume he is weak. An odd statement

    Many do not to appreciate the subtlties of strengths of the darkside as used by a master.

    Rather it should be treated in manner in which people should be impressed that Anakin beat Dooku, an exceptionally powerful Jedi/Sith master, rather than as a matter of course.
  10. Ruthio Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 2
    I agree Douku is a classy villain who chooses style over a red face and horns. Thats why Lucas created him, he wanted someone like Darth Vader who had great mind and incredible presense. Douku is a shining relic of a more classy time, where badguys had style and their words cut deeper then any Lightsaber. Im off topic...so sorry.
  11. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    It just seems odd to lose to Analin like that only to have him lose to Obi-Wan, a man Dooku embarrassed twice.

    It does seem odd that Anakin would lose to Kenobi. That is why George Lucas had to justify the way it happened. Anakin was in a psychological mess and his emotions got the best of him. Plain and simple.
  12. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    no this is not the case. these limits include characters in which batman has no experience in dealing with. batman could not have devised a way to defeat imperiex, plain and simple, he has limits, just like obi wan. there are certain things obi wan just cannot do, like take on and defeat sidious. not possible. batman just like obiw an has no chance against darkseid, doomsday, or imperiex, people seem to think planning will allow batman ample toime to find a weakness. sorry no chance, against the characters i have mentioned. batman has defeated superman, the most impressive feat any human has accomplished, but in the story arcs that have been woeth while, and an enjoyable read, he does so with kyrptonite. remember the battle suit in dark knight returns. you know when green arrow decides to help out a little, please, batman has limits and there are some characters that he has no chance against. period.
  13. Darth-Tantalus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Dooku:

    Now this is the villain of a real Star Wars fan, not as random or clumsy as a Darth Maul. An elegant villain for a more civilized time.
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The only thing Palpatine was doing was serving as bait and encouraging Anakin to kill Dooku. It'd be stupid to influence the outcome, other than through his words. And yes, Dooku's that powerful enough to lift Obi-wan into the air and fling him. All those close-ups were designed to clue in the clueless about Palpatine being evil.
  15. obiwankoti Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2005
    star 2
    The only thing the duel proves is that Anakin is DUMBER than obiWan,( eg; jumping , when Obi has the high ground.) not neccessarily better . :eek:
  16. Darth-Tantalus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Stupidity is very much a privilege of youth.

    I exercise it every weekend.
  17. obiwankoti Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2005
    star 2
    Stupidity is very much a privilege of youth.

    I exercise it every weekend.



    Just be careful of Lava. [face_laugh]
  18. KokoroSabishii Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2005
    i think that neither is stronger and if Anakin had been thinking clearly he wouldn't have tried that stupid stunt he attempted! they are pretty evenly matched and they know each others stlye like the backs of their hands, because they were master and apprentice for so long.
    just as a random comment; i came home from Revenge of the Sith and watched A New Hope, the difference between the lightsaber duals between Vader & Kenobi in those two was pretty funny.
  19. Darth-Tantalus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Lava and women that look far better after too many drinks.
  20. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    don't we all. don't we all.
  21. I_Worship_Sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2004
    star 2
    Could either one defeat Roger Federer?
  22. cyrusscott Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Obi Wan ultimately gives his life willingly to the force when he lowers his saber when fighting darth vadar. He becomes one with the force and realizes in that moment (somehow) that giving his life will inspire Luke to fulfill his destiny. He is the only jedi that does that right..I mean?gives his life purposefully?knowingly?.

    A jedi realizes that the force is stronger than any jedi. For this reason, and in martial arts or moving meditations like Tai Chi, a practitioner (or jedi in this case) will flow with the force and use the force. In this particular battle, Anakin is stronger physically and full of rage, but he does not own his rage?he cannot control his power. Obi Wan actually uses Anakin?s own anger against him. This is the problem with the dark side. The hunger for power will give a Sith great power, but that power will ironically end up being ther own downfall. Like evertything else in this movie, you can see examples of this in the real work. Seriously though?I?m rabmling?

    The answer is:

    Anakin is Stronger?.physically
    Obi Wan is Stronger?mentally?and with the force?.
    Better Dueler?...only when he needs to be?.

    Obi Wan to me too is the ultimate Jedi..not only because he gave his life..but he was always the connection between the force..the way of the jedi and Luke. Only the rarest jedi can attain his understanding of the force and still be down to earth enough to kick-it normal style ?.What I mean is?he wasn?t all green and living on Dagoba?Obi wan?.the Jedi Messiah?
  23. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    A single duel proves nothing.
    This thread is inductive hell.
  24. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    obi wan supporters will tell you that two duels prove even less, after all obi wan fights better one on one. :rolleyes:

  25. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Exactly. The outcome of these duels is not decided by the power of the participant, rather the arc of the plot. Remember, we're dealing with PRE-quels here, so some things have to get from point A to point B.
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