Does the Duel prove that Obi-Wan is better dueler than Anakin?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by HagentheSith, Jan 15, 2005.

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  1. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    i used to disagree, but after our debates on the matter, yoshi, you have convinced m somewhat.

    anyways, i think we are pretty much on the same page.....................
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    ............................................................for now. :mad: ([face_peace])
  2. Jedi_Robin Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Obiwan is better at the time. Palpy knew ANakin was in trouble, what he foresees is what happens. Obiwan was a better Jedi at the time. Anakin was arogant and just started with the darkside. He was a noob in a sense. Eventually, off course Anakin becomes stronger than Obiwan through the darkside of the force. A master of evil. Obiwan warned Anakin to not try, becuase Obiwan didn;t want to hurt Anakin in the first place. He was compelled to do what he had to, but Anakin's arogance led him astray. Even with an heart felt Obiwan.
  3. PANAKIN_Hightalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 1
    Obi-wan said it earlier in the movie: '...I've taught you everything I know...'. I don't think that this was an incidental placement of character dialogue. Deep down, Anakin hates the fact that if anyone could deal with him with regard to his combat style it would be Obi-wan. Yes, Obi-wan is better in this situation because he is more mature and more rational than Anakin- which is part of what led to Anakin's seduction in the first place. He needs an edge; sorta like when athletes take steroids. The Darkside is a strong lure for a person looking to impress himself and everybody else.
  4. Jedi_Robin Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Obiwan was the best. He taught Anakin all he knew, but the force was stronger with Obiwan.
    My opinion...
    Is that the force knew Anakin was soon to be the most powerful. Because Anakin choose the darkside path, the force actually limited him. Through Obiwan off course. If Anakin choose the path of a Jedi, and destroys Palpatine, then he would have been content, and lived his days without feeling power hungry and hatred.
    The Vader suit was inevitable in a way, limiting his power for choosing the darkside path.
  5. Sith_of_Yoder Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 1
    Anakin i knew had no chance, because anger enthralled him to fight, and Anakin gets stronger from fighting, not weaker.
  6. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    Obi-Wan was wiser and more perceptive during the duel. Anakin's talent could only get him so far, especially when he stopped thinking when he used the darkside. Obi-Wan remained in control of his emotions as best he could and was prepared to do what he must. He was a true Jedi through and through.
  7. JarJarBlingBling Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Anakin becomes more powerful, but not as controled. Dooku's fall was because he was arogaunt himself and that is why he lost to Anakin. Obiwon had more focus and was able to deal with Anankin because Anakin was blinded by the darkside and let his emotions take over. Obiwon could sense this in him and that's what made him better. He used the force the way it was supposed to be used. In A New Hope, Obiwon probably would have won that battle as well, but knew his best bet was to help Luke get off the Death Star by becoming one with the force.
  8. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Which brings up a good point, what if both Anakin and Obi-Wan got to a point where neither of them actually thought when fighting, instead they just let their emotions flow and let the Force guide them. Of course, the only difference is Anakin's emotions are more out of control and lead him down the path of lost limbs.
  9. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    Good point, ObiWan506. The fight on Mustafar also shows that the darkside truly is not stronger than the lightside of the Force. If both combatants opened themselves fully to the influence of the Force, which I think is a safe assumption, then the outcome of the duel shows that the lightside is at least comparable in strength to the darkside. Anakin's fighting was erratic, emotional, and unmeasured. That is the nature of the darkside. Obi-Wan, however, was measured, wise, strategic as he fought his former apprentice. While the darkside imbued Anakin with great power and strength, the lightside empowered Obi-Wan with peace, serenity, and the ability to counter the acrimonious power of the darkside.

    Thus we see that two combatants, both alike in skill, training, and method, are separated by their allegiance to respective sides of the Force. Obi-Wan was the better duelist. Why? Because he accessed the lightside of the Force which enhanced his training, abilities, and natural talents as a battle hardened Jedi Master. Anakin was the lesser duelist because the darkside was ill equipped for the totality of his training which he had employed throughout his life. Over the next twenty years he probably rethinks his fighting style and training in order for it to be augmented by the darkside.

    Obi-Wan was the better duelist on Mustafar.
    :)
  10. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Exactly! That is why the Darkside is not necessarily stronger ... just quicker and easier like Yoda says.
  11. DARTHMORDOR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    so I watched KILL BILL VOL1 last night. and a thought accured to me. uma kills 88 or less guys in this big fight. she has difficulty with three. go go, johny mo and of course o-ren.


    go go has uma on the ropes most of their fight. and uma finaly killes her with a board with nails sticking out of it.

    my point is this. according to the anakin people go go is the stronger warrior. or better deulist. she was winning the whole time. the bride is constantly backing up she is "running". (jumping from table to table) but the end result is the bride kills go go. she gets up and then kills 80 more people. does anybody really belive go go is the better fighter?

    translate this to ROTS obi wan defeats anakin in a much more decisive way. not the same kind of "luck" we have seen him win by in the past.
    like the bride he saw his oppertunity to win and took it.

    obi wan even gave anakin an out much like the bride did with go go. both rejected it both suffered the consequences.
    lucas went out of his way to make it clear that obi wan had the upper hand and he still gave his oppoenet the chance to walk away. it is a traditional method of storytelling the noble hero offers a chance for recinceliation, for an end to hostilities. some see this as a cowards move, "he does'nt want to fight" or "he is afraid to fight". but it the noble hero's pesonality coming out. it is what makes him a hero instead of a villian. I mentioned the SEARCHING FOR BOBBY FISCHER awhile back. next movie you watch that involves any kind of compitition, look for it. it will be there. the hero offers a choice at the final momment or before beginning it.
    its classic. this is why its there this is why obi wan is the better.

  12. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    Obi-Wan's compassion and civility, even after all that Darth Vader had done, amazes me. He's the consummate hero of the PT if you ask me.
  13. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    I know. Even after a little thing like Death, he still manages to be a great influence and trusted hero.

    :)
  14. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I like the point made about the Dark Side not being stronger. When asked by Luke about its strength, Yoda very quickly dismissed it. It is seductive and quick, but who's on fire at the end, who loses their head, who gets sliced in half, and who gets tossed down a Death Star shaft?
  15. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    Plus, ultimately it is Obi-Wan and Yoda that teach Anakin how to retain his identity following Anakin's death aboard DS II in OT. After all Vader had done, Obi-Wan still reaches out to Anakin and teaches him what ostensibly is one of the greatest mysteries of the Force.
  16. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Without Obi-Wan and Yoda, the two Jedi Anakin always believed he was stronger and more talented than, Anakin would've simply died at the end of RotJ had it not been for their far superior power and prowess in the Force.
  17. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    So true. Instead of holding Anakin back after he died, Obi-Wan facilitated Anakin's progress in the Force.
  18. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    How difficult the decision must've been to allow him back. Maybe the will of the Force spoke to both Obi-Wan and Yoda, but ultimately it was their decision and power that did it.
  19. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    I don't think it was very difficult for Obi-Wan to allow Anakin back as a redeemed man. Obi-Wan loves the guy, even though he knows there no good in him until the end of ROTJ, I still like to believe that he couldn't wait to allow his old friend back into his life in Force Heaven.

    :)
  20. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    Force Heaven? Interesting concept, ObiWan506.

    Personally, I can only imagine that it would be an emotional decision for Obi-Wan and Yoda. However, I am sure that the will of the Force encouraged them to assist Anakin. Afterall, the prophecy had been fulfilled, balance had been restored, and the Chosen One had finally risen to his destined role. Though Vader caused many hardships and atrocities to occur, in the end the will of the Force had been realized.
  21. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Allowing the Anakin back that was good and before the turn doesn't negate all the terrible things he did over the course of decades. He's the reason Order 66 could finally take place and the Jedi became extinct.
  22. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    Well, that's true, Sapient. Without Anakin intervening and saving Palpidious, Order 66 would never have happened. That's certainly one of the myriad reasons why I think you're right. The decision must have been extremely emotional and difficult for Obi-Wan and Yoda and it proves their discipleship to the will of the Force is beyond question. Despite the atrocities which Anakin could never truly atone for, the loss of their friends and comrades, they obeyed the will of the Force and truly "saved" Anakin.
  23. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    What did the Force gain by Anakin's inclusion in it at that point?
  24. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Yeah, I would just say Heaven but it's been mentioned a few times in the movie that one's spirit transforms into the Force. So instead of just Heaven, I include Force in there too.

    :)

    A pretty face.
  25. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    What do you mean, DS?

    ObiWan506: I think it's pretty clever, actually. :)

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