Does the EU cheapen the films?

I have to say that the EU seems to take pleasure out of downgrading movie characters example

Qui Gon - despite been the man in TPM old Qui - Gon is portrayed as been moody and pretty much useless in EU books he cant even handle a bounty hunter with a whip

Assaj Ventress ? despite only been a jedi padawan when she fell to the darkside Ventress has already Killed numerous Jedi knights & Master and trounced two characters from the films in lightsaber duels namely Kit Fisto & Obi wan. Having Ventress do this makes the Jedi look completely useless + hurts not only Fisto and Kenobi but characters like Darth Maul as well.

Durge ? Durge been so bloody invincible makes Jango Fett look like a second rater who wouldn?t have had a sniff of been the primary source of the clones if Durge would have been around.

What do people think?


NP edit: Spoilers belong in 3SA.

 

Well, Qui-Gon being "The Man" didn't excactly save him from ending on the wrong end of someone else's saberstaff. I'd say he did better against the whipguy considering that he actually survived that one.

As for Ventress, I guess she learned quite a few tricks since. There may be chance that the joint run by the Jedi isn't the only place to learn to use supernatural powers...

And Durge? Well I guess he'll bite it sooner or later too. There's no one saying that characters who appear in the movies has to be the most ûber-powerful individuals in their particular field of expertice either...

And finally, does any of this matter if you enjoy reading the EU material?

 

"As for Ventress, I guess she learned quite a few tricks since. There may be chance that the joint run by the Jedi isn't the only place to learn to use supernatural powers..."

Fair enough but why should a typical dark jedi who never advanced beyond the level of padawan & who was taught her self the dark arts be able to over come experienced jedi masters like kenobi and Fisto?? and for the good of EPS 3 they should be able to handle themselves against short-term EU characters like durge and ventress.

 

Anyway, the films indicate Dooku is one of the best swordsmen in the GFFA sinc he manages to not lose to Yoda who Obi-wan says is the best.

 

Another one of these?

Right now, I'm digging away to try and locate a link to last year's annual "Does the EU Cheapen the Films?" thread...save some bandwidth, and redivert this discussion there.

 

>>" trounced two characters from the films in lightsaber duels namely Kit Fisto & Obi wan."<<

She barely beat Kit. Not really a trouncing. And she had to run from Obi-Wan at Ord Cestus. At the Naboo moon they were pretty much evenly matched, even with Durge running around causing mayhem and Kenobi's strength sapped from the Swamp Gas. In the end it took an exploding AT-AT for Ventress to finally capture Kenobi!

>>"and for the good of EPS 3 they should be able to handle themselves against short-term EU characters like durge and ventress."<<

So all the new villains should exist only to be immediatley defeated by the main characters?

 

So all the new villains should exist only to be immediatley defeated by the main characters?

A very good point here, I think. I have really been enjoying Assaj Ventress as the 'Face of the enemy' for the Clone Wars. It's what I personally think is a great asset to the entire Clone Wars EU. Sure, we've always seen lots of enemies throughout the EU, but most of them are always destroyed in one book/issue or after a few. At least with Ventress, we've had a Dark Jedi who has been there from the very beginning, and whom the main characters will most likely face near the end of the war...

... and after all what they've been through, I'm very curious to see what the final result will be.

(as for Durge? He's a neat, if somewhat silly, character, but feels rather underused, if you ask me. He played an important part at first, standing next to Ventress whenever he could, and suddenly, *boom* he's only mentioned a few times. I would've preferred if he had died at the battle of Muunilinst. Seems rather fitting, especially after he had finally been 'unmasked')

 

Perhaps we ought to note that each of the examples being used comes from the PT EU, and that maybe, just maybe, there's a good reason, in terms of the overall story line, why the PT Jedi are getting whipped (pun not intended).

KW

 

He's right!

::burns bookshelf to the ground::

Wait, no he's not. Crap.

 

Only on rare occasions does the EU cheapen the films, like Dark Empire(I don't care whatever lame excuse is made, Anakin Skywalker killed Palpatine and Palpatine's supposed to stay dead).

 

I think what EU authors don't get is that the films are supposed to be the most important time ever in the GFFA. There never will be a Jedi with as much power or pilot with as much skill as Anakin. Palpatine is the greatest sith lord ever and he manages to bring about the darkest time in the galaxy. Luke has more potential than any jedi bar his father and Leia (who has equal talent) and so should be easily the best jedi in the following years. I think once the authors get these basic points then the stories are fine.

However, when they have Palaptine returing, Exar Kun being more powerful than Palpatine, Fel being a better pilot than Anakin and Luke being beaten by people he trained then it cheapens the films.

 

agree darth, Luke refusing to turn to the dark side in ROTJ is cheapened by the fact that ten years later (tell me if i'm wrong) he turns!

Though it does flesh out the movies, stuff like the X-Wing series, JA and JQ and Clone Wars novels

 

Sure, there have been some regrettable plot threads throughout the history of the EU (what Katana mentioned above about Luke in DE comes to mind) but I think ultimately the EU has helped further enhance and flesh out the SW universe. And, to be completely honest, I feel that the EU has made me into an even bigger SW fan than I used to be.

 

Exar Kun being more powerful than Palpatine

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe that this has ever been definitively stated anywhere. It might be people's opinions, but who in the GFFA can state for an absolute fact which of two of the most powerful Force-users of all time, separated by four millennia, is stronger?

Certainly not that fool at Yavin in KotOR. Kun's stronger than Revan? Pft, as if!

agree darth, Luke refusing to turn to the dark side in ROTJ is cheapened by the fact that ten years later (tell me if i'm wrong) he turns!

You're wrong.

It was six years.

 

Luke turning to the Dark Side doesn't cheapen it for me. He has *always* been a character who has many of the same flaws as his father, just tends to make better decisions because of his support group. To me, Luke will always have to walk a dangerous line balancing between both sides - because he has felt both and knows the seductively easy nature of the dark side - and it means even more to me that the decision he made by his father's side is the one that he always returns to and is the best for him.

In general, there really isn't anything that cheapens the films for me since I tend to see both in different universes within my mind. There are things that definitely irritate me though, such as in the case of characters like Kyp Durran who are amibiguously super powerful to the point where people theorize that he may be more powerful than Luke. (Though I doubt he is. I do believe an author stated it in an interview that he wasn't.) To me, the Skywalkers are a type of Jedi that are supposed to be above and beyond any others that have been or ever will be. I mean, for goodness sakes, Luke's "grandfather" is the Force itself. I don't see how you can possibly overcome that with any biological produced Jedi. Sure, there will certainly be extremely powerful Jedi born - but not anyone who supercedes clan Skywalker. (At least within their lifetimes. The force does seems to flow in an out of balance.)

Now, whether Luke is more powerful than Anakin is up for debate. Just because somebody came to "balance the force" doesn't mean they're the most powerful, and Anakin's own internal conflict over dark v.s. light Force resources may have very well allowed mastery of either one to elude him. Generally, I tend to think Luke was either just as powerful or just below as powerful as his father. But, then, it's difficult to know, since having watched both battles between father and son numerous times, I can firmly say either one or the other wasn't giving it his all or wasn't properly trained enough to really give us an idea of what each is capable of. Though, it should be noted that Luke seems actually near par to his father's force skills in ROTJ, and he only had a few weeks of training versus Anakin's years as a Padawan under both Obi Wan and the emperor.

 

Then why did GL like DE most out of all the EU?

We don't know why he likes it, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a quote verifying that claim(from anyone working with Lucas-- I'm pretty sure GL himself wouldn't mention it).

 

Reaper, even if all the stuff you mentioned was undeniably bad, I will never understand the idea of it "cheapening" the films. If you don't like a comic or a novel that happens to be set in the same universe as the movies, hell, if you don't like any of them, how does that affect your enjoyment of the movies themselves? A lot of people didn't like Return of the Jedi. Did that make them like The Empire Strikes Back any less?

 

People don't like ROTJ?

But...but it had sword battles! And shiny explosions! And character ANGST! It had everything, man! Some people are just too damn picky, wanting things like explanations for sudden, massive character developments and better plot progressions...those party poopers.

I have to agree with the above. I can see how the books might ruin some of the ideals you feel the film might have set up, but I hardly see how they make the films any less great. Besides, they aren't Lucas canon, so you can ignore them if you wish.

 

I don't like the start of ROTJ, I normally fast forward bits of Jabba's palace to pass the bad bits.

But ROTJ was the perfect ending.

Did GL like DE? *is confused*

NJO is is much better than DE IMO

I'll tell you what's bad. Jeter's Bounty Hunter wars.

NOTHING HAPPENS! And converting cliches fromm our galaxy into GFFA DOESN'T WORK.

I gave up halfway through slave ship

EDIT: And as for it chepening ROT remember this line.

"I will never turn to the dark side. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

Never say never dude

 

Does the EU cheapen the films?

or...

Do the films cheapen the EU?

You have to admit, there is plenty of EU material that is much better than some or all of the films. Personally, I prefer the EU to the films, and doubt that I would care half as much as I do about Star Wars if the EU didn't exist in the form that it does. Perhaps the poor films are giving good EU a bad rap?

 

Palpatine managed to rule the entire galaxy.

Exar Kun ruled a few red, spike-skinned freaks. Big deal.

Don't tell me Kun was a better Sith Lord! He was a loser.

Anyhoo, Kun could not be the most powerful Sith ever: he couldn't achieve perfection w/o 3 eyes

 

Then why did GL like DE most out of all the EU?

First off GL hasn't even ead all the EU. Out of what he has read it is supposedly his favorite. But then again he probably thought Jar-Jar was a good replacement for Chewie as the alien sidekick. So his judgement is far from perfect.

7-7-7, I completly agree. I prefer most of the EU to the movies. But it does have it's low points. Ep. I is a masterpiece compared to Crystal Star, Children of the Jedi and Planet of Twilight. And Jar-Jar is better than Waru, Hethrir, and several others.

 

What does the hell does Kun stronger than Sidious have to do with anything?

He essentially trained himself, and had that amulet. If you were hooked up to Gonk droid, you'd be beefed up too. Deprived of his toys, Kun was average.

Sidious, on the other armpit, had trained his whole life. That's a world or four of difference, isn't it?

And how does the EU cheapen the movies? Am I the only one who doesn't see the movies as quasimystical demigods to be fondly revered? They're just movies . . . movies that captured people because they were ahead in special affects at that time.

Didn't Fortress and Independence Day blow you away at that time? Now their special effects are a bit antiquated. Or did the previous generation never see a woman take charge of a situation on screen, like the atypical damsel? Ha, in that generation, certain people had to sit at the back of buses, didn't they? You Earthians sure are strange.

I'll bet an honest Hutt had SW debuted now, last year, it would not have been overly extraordinary. Something is only a sensational hit when there is nothing like it, rivals, out there. Like Matrix.