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Does the Force course-correct?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by BoromirsFan, Jun 12, 2010.

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  1. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

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    May 16, 2010
    I use Charlie Pace from Lost as an example. Look him up if you dont know what i mean.

    What i ask is this.

    Can the Force course-correct deviations in set paths?

    Suppose Vader got suicidal.

    He plunged the bloodshine blade into his heart or throat or any other life-threatening organ.

    He dies...Because well he stabbed himself in fatal area.

    WOuld the force course correct by creating a new chosen one, or would Anakin miraculously live ala Mustafar toasting session.

    discuss if you wish
     
  2. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 22, 2004
    I cant cite an example where the Force needed to course-correct. It was the characters who needed the course-correction.
     
  3. Slowburn

    Slowburn Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Apr 22, 2010
    No, I don't think so. There is really no proof of this one way or another. The Force really doesn't pick sides in my opinion. If the Chosen One kills himself, I'm certain that the deed is done. There may be another type of Chosen One written in the prophecy, but there is no way to be sure and that could be thousands and thousands of years away. That being said, the Jedi prophecy is native to the Jedi only and would not apply to other Force users. Kind of makes you wonder if the Force ever intended for there to be a Chosen One in the first place, or if Anakin was created for more abstract reasons.
     
  4. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    Creating Anakin to take out Palpatine?
     
  5. Obi-Chron

    Obi-Chron Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 11, 2003
    ^^^

    'Zactly . . . put another way, if an all powerful Sith twists the force and creates the chosen one, and then that creation destroys the Sith and returns balance to the force (i.e. no more Sith to mess with the force).
     
  6. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    You know, I know Lucas teases about this being a possibility, but seriously, you can't get more than 4 minutes into explaining the cause-&-effect of the series of events that would lead to a Sith science experiment finding its way to Tatooine before sounding like an complete idiot. There's a big difference between Lucas allowing the possibility, and actually explaining the probability.
     
  7. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    This line of reasoning makes more sense for an episode of Law-and-Order. Applying common sense to Star Wars is pretty darn pointless, though I understand many continued discussions here are based on just that. The suggestion of Anakin being created through Sith powers makes him not so much a necessity created by the Force, but a disaster imposed upon it. Maybe this marriage between the good side and the bad side is the balance of the Force referred to in the prophecy.
     
  8. DarthIktomi

    DarthIktomi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 11, 2009
    Could've been Plagueis trying to create the ultimate Sith, but whatever.

    I'd say sdending Luke to Bespin so he'd have the knowledge that Vader was his father so he'd try to redeem him, so Anakin would be motivated to take out Palpatine.

    The Force is a subtle deity.
     
  9. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    That's kinda the problem with that scenario...it DOES require a whole lot of explaining. Again, saying it's possible and explaining how it's probably are two completely different things. You're sure as hell not going to find Lucas explainging the later, and for good reason.
     
  10. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    The possibility alone that Sidious helped create Anakin has psuedo-theological implications that say a lot about the dualistic nature of The Force, even if it seems like a complete tangent in the Star Wars soap-opera storyline. Thats all I was trying to say.
     
  11. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    I get that, but the destination is one thing. It's the journey that is ridiculous.
     
  12. fistofan1

    fistofan1 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2009
    I would guess that, if the force made an entity like the chosen one the "will of the force" would prevent him from dying.
     
  13. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2005
    Wow. I should use that in a religious debate at some point.
     
  14. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    You're welcome. I expect royalties. ;)
     
  15. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Classic. =D= [face_laugh]

    First off, I agree with MeBeJedi that the idea of the Sith/Plagueis/Sidious having created Anakin themselves is pretty ridiculous when you think about it more. It sounds cool because of the irony, but beyond that it's kind of weak. But Palpatine's speech brought it up and Lucas has left it open, so there you go.

    I myself think that the Force created Anakin, via the will of the Force. I think that the idea of "the Chosen One", or at least the name, is a Jedi concept based on the Jedi's own Jedi-centric view of the Force. But as it turns out, they are are pretty much right about it overall.

    As far as whether the Force does "course-correcting", and the OP's example of the Chosen One attempting suicide, I think that free will exists in the GFFA as it probably does in our own. So while the Force has a will that does subtly direct how things go, free will means that individuals can take actions that go against it. A Sith using the Force to kill (the dark side) is an example, and the Chosen One committing suicide would be another. The Force does not / would not stop either. It does however, have the will and the ability to adapt and respond, and guide things subtly again towards its own desired ends. So eventually, a new Chosen One (to use the Jedi's term) would come along, for the Force to try again to bring balance via an individual being. And if it worked, that would have been the true Chosen One, and the previous one would not have been because the role would not have been fulfilled.
     
  16. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 22, 2004
    Was that course-correction or just an already built in mechanism to control the population of Force users ? Anakin took out many more Jedi than Sith.
     
  17. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    "Balance" does not refer to equal numbers of Jedi and Sith, it refers to "harmony". Furthermore, the Force would have no concept of there being an overpopulation of Force users running around, just that the ones using the dark side (the Sith) were throwing it out of balance. So no population control goal existed. Anakin was not fulfilling the will of the Force or his destiny as the Chosen One when he killed Jedi (or anything else he did as Darth Vader)... he only fulfilled them when he was redeemed at the end of ROTJ, killing Palpatine.
     
  18. Obi-Chron

    Obi-Chron Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 11, 2003
    Ah, but it was Lucas' 'original' intent to confuse and deceive the audience as much as Anakin, as IMDB explains (at the bottom of the linked page).

    The first draft of the script also explained the mystery surrounding Anakin's conception. In the confrontation scene between Anakin and Palpatine (where Palpatine confesses to Anakin he is Darth Sidious), he would also explain that he used the power of the Force to will the midichlorians to start the cell divisions that created Anakin. This explanation was later deemed unnecessary by George Lucas and subsequently cut.

    It was supposed to 'mirror' the "Luke, I am your father" moment in ROTJ, but Lucas ultimately decided to leave the specifics up to the fans as to how Anakin was begotten.
     
  19. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 22, 2004
    Furthermore, the Force would have no concept of there being an overpopulation of Force users running around, just that the ones using the dark side (the Sith) were throwing it out of balance. So no population control goal existed.
    Cant say that for sure. For over a thousand years, there have only been two Sith and it looks like Palpatines predecessors played more havoc with the Dark Side than he did. I cant see the Force specifically singling out Palpatine. During the same time frame, the Jedi Force users have grown a lot in numbers.
     
  20. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    Oh, I'm well aware of this. But again, he's just raising the possibility. As it stands, there's no explanation beyond this, so it could easily be taken as a lie.

    You're not going to find Lucas explaining the "how" of this scenario - ultimately leading to Anakin ending up on Tatooine - because it's going to sound like a ridiculous comedy of errors. Lucas was smart to drop this idea.

    Anakin was supposed to have fulfilled the Prophecy in ROTS, but he made the wrong choice. This is the risk of free will - it doesn't always go the way you want it. Everything after that was intended to get him to make the right choice.

    For all the Force's power, it's actually quite limited on its own - otherwise, it could have prevented its misuse by Palpatine. As it was, it needed Anakin to do what it could not.

    Because for a thousand years, the Sith haven't been in a position to take over the entire galaxy. Anakin was found while Palps was just getting his plans under steam, so it would appear there was an attempt to create something to head Palps off at the pass, much like the human body creating anti-bodies in response to a new threat.
     
  21. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Well said, MeBeJedi; sounds like we're totally on the same page on this one.
     
  22. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 22, 2004
    Because for a thousand years, the Sith haven't been in a position to take over the entire galaxy.
    But does the Force really care about who runs the galaxy or its politics ?
     
  23. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Not politics per se, but it would "care" about the Sith (those who use the dark side and throw the Force out of balance) having that kind of power. Running the galaxy certainly implies having an unopposed kind of power that could really corrupt the Force. I think Palpatine's "once more the Sith will rule the galaxy" and "unlimited power!" quotes are not just referencing military and political power, but the power of the dark side of the Force as well.
     
  24. Dark_J3dii

    Dark_J3dii Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 14, 2010
    >>Spamming will get you nowhere.
     
  25. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    Well, since the Force comes from life, and the Sith are willing to wipe out entire planets to make their point....yeah, I'd say the Force would notice something like that....much in the same way Obi-wan was physically affected by the destruction of Alderaan.
     
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