CT Does the "new" stuff take you out of the movie?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by WhiskeyGold, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. 1cb_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2003
    no it does not take me out of the movies, and I have seen the OT first run in the theaters.:-B

    Do what I do; take off the thinking cap, sit back and relax. Too much thinking regarding these movies.[face_thinking]
  2. ILuvJarJar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2008
    star 6
    The only change done to the OT that takes me out of the movie is Jabba's "brand new door".

    (I was so used to seeing the old, static shot, that the new one just sticks out.)

    Besides that, none of the SE or blu ray changes bother me at all.
  3. QsAssistant Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 2
    When the SE were released I was 8 or 9, so that's what I grew up with. Although, I now understand why fans, who grew up with the OOT, say changes stick out like a sore thumb; I now have the young Anakin force ghost, but now I don't mind it.
  4. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    The only thing that takes me out of the movie is in ANH when Han chases the stormtroopers into the hangar full of stormtroopers. It was so much funnier when it looks like the three stormtroopers he was chasing suddenly realized they outnumbered him and turned around and aimed!
  5. jacktherack Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2008
    star 4
    i grew up with the 97 special editions. those were the ones i saw first. i was 7 when i first saw them and loved them. some of the mos eisley scene never bothered me but i can see now that people say it how it bothers people. the jabba scene in anh is pretty bad. the han/greedo shoot out never really bothered me probably cause i didn't notice it until i read about it probably 6-8 years ago.. it still dousn't bother me, now hayden being the force ghost that really bothered me... i will always love the 1997 special editions but you gotta remember i haden't seen the unaltered versions untill this year... i own a ton of versions of the original trilogy including 1980 version of anh 1981 version of esb 1992 versions of anh and esb 1995 widescreen and fullscreen versions 1997 trilogy box set 2000 trilogy box set 2004 dvd double disk.. yeah...
  6. OBI-GYN_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 3
    I just watched ESB for the first time in a long while last night & Palp's in there instead of the little mousy Emperor with the different diaglogue was a bit jarring, but no biggie...

    Jabba with Han in IV adds nothing ~ nothing ~ and he looks poor compared to the puppet in ROTJ.....

    But 'Greedo shoots first makes me want to VOMIT every time I see it.

    Like wtf, Lucas? Are we suposed to believe that a bounty hunter can't even shoot straight when shooting first?

    :_|
  7. TheLucasAdvocate1992 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2010
    star 2
    Rant ahoy

    Small question here for everyone who cares about this whole 'shoots first' nonsense: why should it matter which way a bounty hunter shoots, if he still kills his foe in the end either way? Because personally I fail to see what difference it makes if Han shoots first, second or even third, because in the end he's STILL Greedo's murder at the end of that less-than five second scene no matter what.

    And before anyone says that it makes him less of a badass, let me just say that what does it matter if that one scene makes him just a LITTLE less badass than before? We still have the rest of the movies if Han doing awesome things do we not? And secondly how shallow in general does someone have to be if they only care about a character's badassery?

    That, at least, is my take on this whole silly (silly to me that is) debate. [face_peace]

    As for the topic at hand, if the newly added stuff takes me out of the movie, can't say either way. Haven't sat down and watched any of the SE in a long time to care regardless.
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That's kind of the point. Greedo doesn't kill his foe, because he's apparenly aiming off to the side like a mental incompetent.
  9. Grand_Moff_Jawa Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5
    I think what gets some fans riled is the fact that the scene was changed at all.

    Han shooting first wasn't really an issue with fans until the special editions came out. Before that, nobody ever said "Han is so bad###, he shot Greedo before he saw it coming!" We just accepted it as it was. Han doesn't take crap from anyone.

    Seeing Han sitting there waiting for Greedo to shoot first did sort of change Han's character somewhat. Obviously, George thought Han should shoot first as well, as that's how it was put to film. Not sure what prompted George to change this scene. To some, it's a non-factor in the movie. To others, it matters.

    It wasn't broken, so it didn't need fixing.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  10. Drewton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2009
    star 4
    "The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn?t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."
    -George Lucas

    From the script, however:
    HAN: Yes, I'll bet you have.

    Suddenly the slimy alien disappears in a blinding flash of
    light. Han pulls his smoking gun from beneath the table as the
    other patron look on in bemused amazement. Han gets up and
    starts out of the cantina, flipping the bartender some coins
    as he leaves.


    I highly, highly doubt that he always intended Greedo to shoot first like he said. He seems to have forgotten what good character development is; Han starts as being cynical and morally ambiguous. He is the ends-justify-the-means kind of guy who cares for himself above all. But with them now shooting at the same time anyway, it doesn't make Han seem any less like a "cold-blooded killer" or Greedo and less of an idot. It just doesn't make any sense.
  11. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Han's "moral ambiguity" is also part of an escalating pattern in the OT.

    SW - Han's the morally ambiguous guy who turns good.
    TESB - Lando's the nominally villainous guy who turns good.
    RotJ - Vader's the out-and-out villain who turns good.

    It's even got a "mirror" for the PT fans out there.
    TPM - Darth Maul is pure evil turned Sith apprentice.
    AotC - Darth Tyranus is moral ambiguity turned Sith apprentice.
    RotS - Darth Vader is our shining hero turned Sith apprentice.
  12. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    ^ Interesting observations.
  13. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    My memory of that scene, as it originally was, spoke to the danger of Tattooine in general and the bar in specific, as did Obi-Wan chopping the guy's arm off. It didn't really say anything to me about Han Solo.

    At the time most poeple complained about Han Solo's character arc from ANH to ROTJ and how one of the best sarcastic space pirates ever became a pussified wimp.

    So here comes the 1997 SEs and Han's coolness gets retroactively destroyed because he couldn't just off a bad guy without being shot at first (and so rapidly that nobody would have time to react to the shot, which was off by two feet from four feet away). The feeling was that he already ruined the character in the OOT's story arc, and now retroactively is painting over the character when he was cool to make him less so.

    The purpose of the scene edits is to say "See, Han isn't such a bad guy, just like I told you in ROTJ. He's not the kind of guy who would just kill a bad guy with no provocation." And that's why they had to ram in some provocation no matter how ridiculously it is edited in, multiple times.
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    That was my memory of it in 1977 as well. I didn't think anything about Han's character other than he fit in with the entire bar scene. Obi-Wan did say the place might be a little rough.

    That said, I didn't see a change in Han's character from his getting off a shot first in the OOT to second in the SEs. Greedo was threatening Han and was obviously planning to kill him. What Han did was self-defense no matter how quickly he did it.
  15. _Catherine_ Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Again, it's like poetry, it sort of... they rhyme.
  16. Nordom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2004
    star 4
    Your question should be directed at Lucas as he is the ones who been tinkering with this scene several times now. To Lucas it is obviously VERY important who shots first.
    Otherwise, why change it?
    Second, Han is not a murderer in either version. In the original version, Greedo points a gun at him and says clearly that he intends to kill him. But then Han shoots him. This would fall under "self defence" in most courts. Greedo shooting first does not change this in any way.
    Third, what I think irritates people about this change is Lucas's weak arguments.
    He says that Greedo was ALWAYS meant to shoot first. The scripts disagree and so does other people that worked on the movie. Also Lucas says that shooting first makes Han some cold-blooded murderer. As I said above, Han was never a murderer, he was just crafty enough to take advantage of an enemy who did not listen to Tuco ("When you have to shoot someone, just shot, dont' talk").
    To me and to others it seems that Lucas does not want to admit that he changed this, that he had changed his mind about a scene. Instead he tries to pretend that the "New" way is how it was always meant to be. If you have changed your mind about something, admit it and explain why. Trying to pretend that you never did change your mind annoys me.
    Lastly, one other reason why people had problems is that in 97, the scene did not look very good and it still looks a little off to me.

    Regards
    Nordom

  17. sith_rhino Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2007
    star 1
    The new stuff took me out at first, but now for the most part I've seen them enough that I don't really think of it anymore.
  18. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Tomato, tomatoe, potato, potatoe. It matters, it doesn't matter. He can do what he wants, he shouldn't have done it.

    Can someone at least fix the thread title? That's a correction I think we could all enjoy.
  19. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    You people are so demanding. :p
  20. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Awesome. That's been grinding my gears for a while.

    Doing a bang-up job, DarthBoba!
  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
  22. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    I liek proper grammar.
    I disliek the changes, though my major peeve isn't the one about who shot first.
    +1.

    :p
  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Is our children learning?
  24. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, and it's been a catastrophic success....
  25. DarthWuher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2010
    star 1
    Probably the only changes I don't like are the blu-ray kenobi krayt dragon call. It sounds way too human and nothing like an animal. The other is the new vader NO! in ROTJ. The scene is Ok with it, but i'll always feel the scene was better with just the visuals and the music.

    Neither take me out of the movie but they just aren't needed IMO.