Does Timeline between OT & PT make sense?

Hi

okay I'm new here but I've been a fan a long time. I've checked out the archive of threads on this board and i can't really see this topic, but I imagine it must have been discussed to some extent, so if you want to direct me to it please do.
My point of debate is this:

Do the original trilogy and prequel trilogy fit together? It's obvious that Lucas at some point in the last 20 years decided that the number of years that pass between trilogies is less.
In the OT there was a lot of implication that the Empire had been around a lot longer than 20 years, that the Jedi had been wiped out a lot more than 20 years ago.
But now it seem that approx 20 years is the amount of time that has passed.

Originally Vader was at least in his 50's, Ben was so old he should be dead etc. but now Ben will be in his 50s for ep 4.
And think about this - during AOTC Han already exists and is around 8 years old, but somehow the Han in ANH doesn't believe in Jedis and the Force, how can he have forgot what would have been so well known during his childhood?

There's a lot more to argue and discuss on this matter, but I'll stop here just in case someone says "yeah we sorted all this out 2 years ago, get lost!"

gezvader

 

Anakin looks a lot older, IMO, due to his dark side use, just like Palpatine. Han was probably taught by his parents just how lousy and "evil" the Jedi are... Because it is my opinion that Palpatine will turn public opinion against them (even moreso than it was during AotC, which I thought was noticeable). So Han, like all other young people during the events of Ep. III and beyond, will be told that the Jedi are outdated, along with the Force. That they're nothing more than a bunch of worn-out magicians, that have served their purpose, but now must be done away with, like the Republic.


As for Obi-Wan's age, well, I got nothing for that, except that those Tatooine suns do murder to da skin.

 

Well yeah, there's going to be some problems with the timeline since Lucas shortened it, but so far nothing too major (except maybe the what Obi says about Anakin, but that's another thread... ) has shown up.

Now, about the Han/Jedi thing, I don't see it as that strange. After the Clone Wars, I imagine the Empire began relentless propoganda campaigns to wipe any nice feeling or knowledge about the Jedi from the public conciousness. We'll have to see how Ep3 plays out

 

The reason the timeline is different than what was hinted at in New Hope is because of Vader/Anakin--when ANH was made, Gl had no intention of making Darth Vader Luke's father. The jedi have been extinct for about fifty years or so and in that period, Luke's father was killed by Sith Lord Darth Vader.
When Lucas made Lukes father into Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker, that means that Luke's mother had to be impreganated before he turned. Therefore, if Luke is twenty years old, then Anakin/Vader only turned twenty years earlier. Therefore, the Jedi purge, Empire's rise, etc. all occured around the same time, at the very earliest twenty years earlier. The timeline's been that way since 1980 and there really isnt any way Lucas could have gotten around it.

 

Why would Darth Vader mean Dark Father if Lucas never intended him to be Luke's daddy?

 

Another problem is the ages of Owen and Beru : in ANH they both look around 60 but in AOTC they barely look 20.
I just think there are going to be a few more problems yet arising out of this inconsistency.

gez

 

Mr.E:

Why would Darth Vader mean Dark Father if Lucas never intended him to be Luke's daddy?

Coincidence. Im sure if you translated every star wars name into every language that ever existed you'd find a few coincidences. Darth was meant as a title (i.e. Lord, General, etc.), and Vader is derived from inVADER, similar to the way Darth Sidious is derived from inSIDIOUS and Darth Tyrannous from TYRANt. When reading the rough drafts of the original films as well as Lucas' notes and the way in which the characters and events are portrayed onscreen, it is abundantly clear that Darth Vader being Luke's father was an idea that was invented during the second draft of ESB.

As for Owen and Beru, i dont have a problem at all. In AOTC they look to be in the early twenties and by the time ANH comes around they're in their late forties to early fifties. Not a stretch at all (in fact its actually consistant).

 

it is my suspicion that GL really did intend for Darth Vader to be Luke's father even when ANH was made. My reasoning for this is a piece of trivia i found at www.imdb.com ... it says that Vader is actually Dutch for "father" ... coincidence?

anyways, perhaps more years pass between Ep. II and Ep. III than we are anticipating? i'm not sure

 

Nueva, that's what I was referring to. Darth Vader is dutch for Dark Father. Personally, I don't buy the coincidence. Out of all of the words GL could have chosen, he settled with father.

As for the timeline, I wish all of the events we have seen (mainly the age of Anakin when he was discovered by Qui-Gon and his age at the beginning of the Clone Wars) were pushed back ten years or so.

 

As for Owen and Beru, i dont have a problem at all. In AOTC they look to be in the early twenties and by the time ANH comes around they're in their late forties to early fifties. Not a stretch at all (in fact its actually consistant).

Since only 20 years pass between AOTC and ANH, if they're in their early 20's in AOTC - they should be in their early forties in ANH. They look somewhere between 50 and 60. Obi-Wan looks much too old for what he really is, he looks and acts like an 80 year old when he's actually 20 something years younger.

Darth Vader is not dutch for Dark Father. Donker Vader is dutch for Dark Father.

 

Another problem is the ages of Owen and Beru : in ANH they both look around 60 but in AOTC they barely look 20.

Don't forget, they live a harsh life on a desert planet. It will make you age more quickly. Same could be said for Obi-Wan

And people age differently. I've seen people in their late forties that look really old, and Goldie Hawn is in her 50's and was still hot the last time I saw her.

 

Owen

Joel Edgerton (Young Owen) will be 29 when Episode III will be filmed. Add 20 years, and in ANH he should be around 50. Phil Brown (Older Owen) was about 60 when ANH was filmed. Personally, I think he could easily pass as a 50-year old in ANH especially when you take into consideration the unshaven, 'rough' look that he gets in ANH.

Beru

Bonnie Piesse (Young Beru) will only be about 21 when Episode III is filmed. However, I think she looks a little older than her actual years which could be a benefit to this dispute. Shelagh Fraser (Older Beru) was about 53 when she was filming in ANH. Its a little unfair to say that she looks 60 because she doesn't look that old at all. Again I think that she could pass for someone in their 40s. There are loads of people who look older than Beru in there 40's and 50's

Obi-Wan

OnlyOneKenobi: Obi-Wan looks much too old for what he really is, he looks and acts like an 80 year old when he's actually 20 something years younger."

I don't think this fair considering Alec Guinness was only abou 62 or 63 when ANH was filmed. God, he wasn't even old enough to qualify for a free bus pass. He doesn't look anywhere near as old as you say. To me he could easily pass for someone in their 50's. I feel that if you were to remove his white beard, you would see a face that had very little wrinkles upon it.

 

OOK, you're right about Darth not being Dark. Vader is still dutch for father though.

 

Seriously, just how much rejuvenating alpha-hydroxy acid do you think the people of Tatooine use?

I'm sure moisture farmers and exiled Jedi have better things to do (i.e. farm moisture) than worry about wrinkles.

Yeesh.

 

I'm sure they disproved the effectiveness of facial moisturisers a long time ago in the GFFA...

 

it is my suspicion that GL really did intend for Darth Vader to be Luke's father even when ANH was made. My reasoning for this is a piece of trivia i found at www.imdb.com ... it says that Vader is actually Dutch for "father" ... coincidence?

anyways, perhaps more years pass between Ep. II and Ep. III than we are anticipating? i'm not sure

It took several drafts for ANH to become the story it is. It was originally meant to be a stand alone film, and the characters were very different. Luke was more like Obi-Wan. Anikin Starkiller was the son of Kane Starkiller, and represented the characteristics now associated with Luke and Anakin, as well as Han Solo. Solo himself was once a green skinned alien. Luke's parentage was never mentioned, Vader was never anyone's student, and he died at the end. Is this the Vader that Lucas always meant to be somebody's father?

Secondly, the time line is correct. 18 years pass between 3 and 4. It's not like showing Luke and Leia in Episode 3 will suddenly necessitate aging the twins into their 40s, or replacing Shaw with Christensen.

 

OOK, you're right about Darth not being Dark. Vader is still dutch for father though.

Mr. E, the pronounciation is totally different, therefore it's basically a different word. It's pronounced fah-dur.

 

"Vader is still dutch for father though."

'Fett' in german means fat, yet both Boba and Jango are rather slim.

 

You maybe should consider to that Owen and Beru live on a desert planet. As anyone who spends a significant amount of time in a hostile environment can tell you, it's not hard to quickly get to a point where you look alot older than what you are. Besides that guessing someone's age based on thier appeareance can be very decieving. When i saw owen and beru in atoc i thought they looked at the very least to be seventeen! so i wouldn't get to hung up on their looks.

 

Well hey, if I was writing my own kind of SW and looking for names, I wouldn't know how to pronouce some of that stuff.

"Hmm, let's see ... father in Dutch is ... Vader. Vader? Vay-der. Sounds neat. Darth Vader. He's Luke's Vader. Good enough. Now all I need is a name for the big furry thing. Wow, this bagel's chewie."

 

Lucas did have the idea that Vader was Luke's father when he wrote ANH but he wrote the film with the assumption that there wouldn't be any sequels because he thought it was very possible that it would be a complete failure. So he did have that idea back then but didn't include it into the first film because he wanted to make it as stand-alone as possible.

As someone up there pointed out, the death of the Jedi couldn't have been more than 20 years ago since Vader had to have conceived the kids when he was still good. Even if you believe that Lucas didn't have the idea that Vader was Luke's father, it still couldn't have been too much earlier than that since Ben said that Vader was once his apprentice.

Alec Guinness is about 6 years older than his character so there's no problem there. Besides the white hair, he really didn't look that old. He moved kind of slow but I have a feeling we're going to see Obi Wan get injured in the next movie, which could explain that.

The Lars though, they could have made them a bit older in AOTC. I know they live in the desert and all but Beru? She had to have laid out in the Dune Sea smoking a carton of Pall Malls and drinking a bottle of Jack Daniel's every day to make that drastic a change. No wonder Owen was so bitter.

 

Makes sense to me now that I know the yearsm though I am not sure if there is "three" years between TESB and ROTJ.

 

Lucas did have the idea that Vader was Luke's father when he wrote ANH but he wrote the film with the assumption that there wouldn't be any sequels because he thought it was very possible that it would be a complete failure. So he did have that idea back then but didn't include it into the first film because he wanted to make it as stand-alone as possible.

Padme Bra, you are mistaken. There is overwhelming evidence that the notion of Vader=Luke's father was something Lucas thought of while writing the second draft of ESB. Read through all the instances here.

 

You maybe should consider to that Owen and Beru live on a desert planet. As anyone who spends a significant amount of time in a hostile environment can tell you, it's not hard to quickly get to a point where you look alot older than what you are.

Exactly. Look at Shmi and Cliegg in the prequels. Shmi looks like she's in her 40s, although she's most likely younger than that.

Also, if Lucas made Vader Luke's father in ESB, how do you explain Ben's uneasy look when Luke asks him how his father died, and Owen's response when Beru says he has too much of his father in him?