Dooku and Sifo-Diyas in TPM? More of Shmi in AOTC?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Joeykin_Starrunner, Apr 8, 2005.

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  1. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    I personally feel that Dooku shoulda been included in TPM, at the very least during the Jedi Council Scenes. Not to say that he shouldn't have had other scenes, but those scenes woulda been perfect for him to be in. There's a lot of good potential "argument with the Jedi" material there. Then, at Qui Gonn's funeral Dooku coulda either voiced or emoted his frustration at Qui Gonn's needless death (which is one of the reasons why he supposedly left the Order, which ties into his disgust at the fact that the Jedi are the puppets of the decaying government). The opportunity coulda been taken to also show his bond to Qui gonn as well over the course of these scenes. I dunno, I just think it woulda helped out AOTC alot to have seen Dooku with the Jedi before he left them. For example, if his final scene woulda been exiting the Council Chamber or Qui Gonn's funeral in an angry hurry, pissed at the Jedi, and then the next time we woulda heard of him was in the opening crawl of AOTC, and learned that he started a Revolution, I feel it would have been kinda shocking and cool, and would also have added a bit more weight to such things as Windu's claim that Dooku would never assasinate anyone, and make the entire story more impactful overall. It would especially add more weight to Obi Wan's interrogation scene, having seen Dooku in Episode One and knowing his connection to Qui Gonn. It goes back to the age old saying of show, don't tell...or in this case, show, so that when we're told later on, it lends an added weight to things, because we have seen it happen. Dooku was disenfranchised with the Republic and with the Order...seeing him display this frustration in TPM woulda made him more of a sympathetic character when he talks about it in AOTC because we kinda would have seen where he's coming from, i.e. that his former apprentince was sent off to a conflict at the Republic's behest which resulted in his death and which in turn showed how much control the Republic had over the Jedi. And lending sympathy to Dooku was exactly what Lucas was trying to do before he revealed to us that he had gone over to the Dark Side, so this woulda worked. At any rate, Dooku's absence from Episode One is not a glaring flaw or anything, but makes for an interesting What If. That said, I do think it woulda benefitted both movies more if he had been included from the get-go.

    As for Sifo Diyas...eh, I kinda like the mystery surrounding the fact that we never see him so I don't think his absence from Episode One is as missed as Dooku's.

    And I'm thinking maybe a scene or two coulda been given to Shmi on the Lars homestead in AOTC, maybe featuring her closeness to Lars more and having her talk to him about how much she missed Anakin but knew he was doing good out there. It would give the later scene of her death more weight. Once again, its a case of show, don't tell. In this case, seeing Cliegg Lars' loving relationship with his wife woulda made his speech about her at the funeral scene that much more impactful. But then again, as is, we're kinda in the same boat as Anakin, because the last time Anakin (and we the audience) saw her was as a loving, semi-happy mother in TPM, and then the next time Anakin (and we the audience) sees her is as a shell of her former self on the brink of death, and that kinda adds more weight to it all, as well. So, giving her a bit more screen time in AOTC helps us connect to her more, but keeping it as is helps us see the events through Anakin's eyes. So in a way it works fine. But I don't think more screentime for her woulda hurt, either.

    So I guess what I'm saying is that of the three, Dooku shoulda been given more screen time, with an appearance in Episode One, and that Shmi's screentime works either way...and that Sifo Diyas' TOTAL LACK of screen time works perfectly as is. =)

    What do you guys think?
    whostheBossk likes this.
  2. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    I personally feel that Dooku shoulda been included in TPM, at the very least during the Jedi Council Scenes

    Dooku was never on the Jedi Council, so why would be need to be there? The events that happened have nothing to with him.


    Then, at Qui Gonn's funeral Dooku coulda either voiced or emoted his frustration at Qui Gonn's needless death

    Maybe he didn't find out until after the funeral.


    The opportunity coulda been taken to also show his bond to Qui gonn as well over the course of these scenes.

    So having Dooku tell Obi-Wan in AOTC that Qui-Gon was his former Padawan wasn't enough for you?



    As for Sifo Diyas...eh, I kinda like the mystery surrounding the fact that we never see him so I don't think his absence from Episode One is as missed as Dooku's.

    People love to make such a big deal out of this character. Sifo-Dyas wasn't even showned in Episode II, but he is almost the most popular character, yet we don't know what he looks like.
  3. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    For example, if his final scene woulda been exiting the Council Chamber or Qui Gonn's funeral in an angry hurry, pissed at the Jedi, and then the next time we woulda heard of him was in the opening crawl of AOTC, and learned that he started a Revolution

    NO, NO, NO!!!!

    What makes the interview is that despite their history, Obi-Wan and Dooku have never met. They both share an extremeley tight bond w/ Qui-Gon, but they haven't met. Obi-Wan has heard many stories though Qui-Gon, and the holonet, and now he finally meets him. Obi-Wan realizes that the man that trained Qui-Gon has fallen, and is trying to figure out what is going off.

    What makes Dooku so great is that there is an air of mystery to him, having him in tpm, would ruin it. Especially for the future viewers.
  4. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    Why is everyone so fraking interested in Sifo-Dyas? He was just a pawn that Palpatine or Dooku killed or had killed. I figured we would eventually find out who he or she was, but since it looks like we won't, I can live with it. I don't really think it is that important in the grand scheme of things.

    I, at times, have thought Dooku should have been in TPM as well; however, as that movie already suffers an overabundance of new characters, more would have been too much. Maybe he already left the Order by the time of TPM. If this is the case, then he has no buisness in TPM, even if it's just to satisfy all of our "completist" natures. The EU will probably cover all this at length.
  5. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    :eek:

    Woah, that's a killer paragraph.
  6. JediMasterChiefYoda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2003
    star 3
    I think Dooku in TPM would not have worked. Anyone remember Aurra Sing? She was supposes to have a bigger role in the rest of the saga, but where is she?

    Is it possible she was the orignal templete for the clones (later changed to Jango)? They showed her for about 5 seconds, and she gets a huge amount of EU material about her. Had Dooku been shown agrueing with the council, can you imigine the amount of EU material there would have been about him? I think it was best that Lucas left him (and Sifo-Diyas) out of TPM.
  7. KyleKatarn96 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2004
    star 4
    also..lucas didnt have dooku in mind till after tpm
  8. seventyard Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2003
    star 1
    ^^^^which is why he should have written all three scripts at once before he started shooting. that way, when he started dealing with the serious nature of ep iii, he might have realized the inappropriateness of a fart joke in ep i.
  9. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Maybe he made TPM lighthearted on purpose BECAUSE he knew how dark and serious ROTS would be. You have to have somewhere to go. You cannot start dark and serious and go darker and more serious. You need dramatic elbow room. Any actor will tell you that you don't start an angry scene at the top of emotion because then there is no where to go. TPM was lighthearted because it needed to be in order to have somewhere to go.

    I also think it was intentionally childlike because Anakin is a child. Then AOTC was more grown up but torn between child stuff and grown up stuff because that's where Anakin was. It's the teenager of the films. Obviously ROTS will be the adult, dark and moody like Anakin. Works brilliantly in my mind.

  10. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah, in agreeance with what Strilo said - someone on this board put it perfectly:

    TPM = Childhood Innocence
    AotC = Teenage Angst
    RotS = Adult Tragedy

    - O_F
  11. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    Ok, good points, if some were a little off topic. But no one has chimed in on Shmi's screentime yet....
  12. Drac39 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    Dooku's place in the story doesn`t begin until AOTC.

    He doesn`t belong in TPM
  13. DARTH-FURBABY Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2004
    star 2
    I also think it was intentionally childlike because Anakin is a child.

    Poop and fart jokes are not childlike, but rather childish and therefore tiresome and a turnoff.

  14. Darthgenius77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
    star 1
    Dooku was a former member of the Jedi council, Master Windu says so in Attack of the Clones. However he left the Order, before the events in Phantom Menace. He also killed Sifo Diyas, just before the events, and Dooku is the one that ordered the clones, under Diyas name. If you remeber in AoTC, Obi-Wan makes a comment that Diyas was killed before the Clones were made. There is a reason that there is a ten year difference between TPM and AoTC, so that all the events prior to TPM could come to fruition.
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