TCW Episode Dooku Captured: An Insult to the Sith and to Viewers

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Vialco, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Dooku Captured could have been an awesome episode. Count Dooku, scourge of the Republic flees Jedi and ends up captured by pirates. Instead it's a ridiculous parody that makes a mighty Sith Lord look like a fool.

    I don't protest Dooku's capture per se; Sith or not, he's still a man, and as we see with Order 66, sheer numbers can overwhelm the Jedi. With thirty pirates aiming their guns at him, Dooku would have no choice but surrender, as choosing to fight would probably mean his death.

    But for the Count to even end up in that position is utterly ridiculous. Dooku is a Sith Lord! He shouldn't even have to negotiate with the pirates. Dooku should have just walked up to Hondo, used a mind trick and arranged passage off Vanquor.

    Instead we end up with Dooku being betrayed and his lightsabers somehow being stolen from him. Yes, a Sith Lord doesn't notice a monkey-lizard stealing his lightsabers.What utter nonsense.

    Does anyone have an explanation as to how Count Dooku could have been captured by Hondo and his pirates and why he never used a mind trick to simply escape?

    Dooku: "This old man is not worth your time, and you really don't need those lightsabers."
    Hondo: "Never bite off more than you can chew, that's what my mother said. Take your laser swords and get out of here, old man."

    That's how it should have happened. Instead we get this ridiculous farce where a bunch of pirates actually manage to capture a Sith Lord and hold him for ransom. As if Sidious would ever allow that to occur. Palpatine should have contacted Grievous right away and sent a droid army straight to Florrum.
  2. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    And replaced Dooku as soon as he got back for being lame enough to let it happen in the first place. :p
  3. squir1y Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 2
    I actually found it harder to believe that he would work together successfully with Obi-Wan and Anakin. But I liked his line "If I didn't have to drag your bodies, I would kill you both right now." And Anakin telling Obi-Wan to drop Dooku from the cliff to avoid capture. Overall, I liked the story arc, but yes a bit of disbelief had to be suspended.
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  4. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Maybe Hondo had some Ysalamiri around somewhere.
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  5. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
  6. Why_So_Serious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    Palpatine probably left him there as a test, to see if he could get out of it on his own. Like Dooku tested Grievous against Kit Fisto and Nahdar Vebb.
  7. mes520 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 3
    Yeah, I always felt TCW didn't do Dooku and Grevious justice.
  8. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I simply took it that Dooku didn't wan to turn the whole underworld against the Confederacy so tricked the pirates into 'capturing' him so they would come into conflict with the Jedi and they'd do his work for him...
    Last edited by Sinrebirth, Jul 19, 2013
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  9. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    This was a ridiculously idiotic episode. And in retrospect it was really poor planning on the writers' part -- you've got the #1 villain (well, second only to Palpatine) getting beaten without a fight by a couple of fringers in the first season. If you bring your top villain to his knees so easily in middle of the very first season, what does the audience have to look forward to? You've wasted the top baddie! The only thing TCW could do after that was invent more villains, or bring back dead villains, and the majority of them were just one-shots.

    Also, why the **** did it take him so dang long to extract revenge? You're a Sith Dooku, dammit -- you don't let some crummy thugs humiliate you without showing them who's boss.
    Last edited by Barriss_Coffee, Jul 19, 2013
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I remember enjoying this one due to Anakin and Obi-Wan, but you all are right about Dooku. He got wussified pretty much through the entire show.
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  11. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    How's that work exactly? The pirates captured Dooku before they even met the Jedi. How were they supposed to work for him?
  12. Why_So_Serious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    Demands of the war, most likely. We know from Ahsoka's comments that Hondo's base was in or near Republic-patrolled space. Grievous had to defeat Kenobi's fleet before he could attack it. And there's only so many droid armies to go around.

    Finally, don't forget the shows aren't in chronological order - Grievous had already swung by and wrecked the place before the brothers Maul showed up. We don't actually know how long it took in universe.

    But yeah, still **** writing. Grievous should've been there in the next episode or two.
  13. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    Nah, EU exaggeration aside, Dooku's capture is entirely consistent with the observable powers and weaknesses of even top tier Force users.

    The real inexcusable aspect was that Dooku, Anakin, and Obi-Wan were all kept behind bars. Not an anti-Force field, not energy rays that jam a Force user's ability to tap into the Force, but regular ol' prison bars.
  14. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Indeed, as we saw in AOTC, Dooku has the power to crumple durasteel towers with a gesture. It makes no sense that he would allow himself to be imprisoned by mere iron bars.....

    Hang on one second! When Obi-Wan and Anakin first encounter Dooku on Florrum, he's trapped in one of those Geonosian Electric Prisons-although Hondo having one of those is very convenient. It's only after Obi-Wan and Anakin are also captured, that the three of them are shackled together by electrostatic cables and placed in a normal cell. It's conceivable that Dooku would hesitate to let his guard down for even the few seconds of concentration required to break the prison bars, for fear that the Jedi would use that moment of vulnerability to kill him.

    And it makes sense for Dooku to not attempt an individual escape while shackled to the Jedi, as he would either have to take them with him-utterly unacceptable-or kill them both, which would be very difficult and pointless. The Count actually summarizes it fairly well, "I would kill you both right now if I would not have to drag your bodies."

    Notice that as soon as he's disconnected from the Jedi, Dooku escapes the pirate's base easily. Imprisoning Dooku isn't unbelievable, as that electric prison held Obi-Wan and Even Piell easily. I object not to the way Dooku was captured per se, but more to how the pirates seemingly took his lightsabers without him sensing it and how Dooku failed to realize that the pirates would betray him at the first opportunity. Mind tricking Hondo is still the best option and I don't see why Dooku didn't just wave his hand and mumble something.
  15. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I agree. I don't have a problem with the idea that Dooku could be captured when "impossibly outnumbered", but the idea that he was dumb enough to fall into that position in the first place irks me.

    And I never thought about it in the way that @Barriss_Coffee puts it, in regards to them blowing it with their top, villain in the first season.

    Part of me suspects that Lucas regrets creating Dooku, since Lucas was dictating pretty much every story to some extent and didn't really have Dooku do much of importance or interest, IMO, but Maul's intended replacement (Savage) and Maul himself were later introduced and shown to be taken more serious by the TCW crew, with Lucas saying at one point that Maul was his favorite character, if I recall (though I find that hard to believe, since I think on other occasions he has cited Luke as his favorite, or even dodged the question entirely, saying he can't choose). Which is a shame, because I think there is so much that could have been played with as far as Dooku's history with the Jedi and Republic to make for interesting stories, but this never really came up in TCW.

    And while Dooku I felt was horrendously misused at times, there were some moments when he was alright, like in the slaver arc. No real huge insights into the character there, but he was still portrayed adequately IMO. Grievous on the other hand...
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jul 19, 2013
  16. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    The story started with Anakin allowing himself to be captured before the episode even started and Kenobi sneaking on board to rescue him so they could team up and capture Dooku together. That's a fairly promising idea.

    Indeed it turned into a very stupid episode, but hey at least Hondo/Lord Kowak fans got some fun out of it.

    The whole thing absurd, basically none of it makes sense, I cannot buy even as much as others did in this thread. The effect it has on the credibility of Dooku as a villain and his place as Palpatine's apprentice is truly egregious.

    From the beginning it wistfully reminded me of when Caesar was captured by pirates. He held himself as superior to them even while they held him captive, he spared them no threats of violence and even insisted the pirates ask for a bigger ransom for the mighty Caesar. He promised he would crucify them, and they laughed at him. After the ransom was paid Caesar immediately gathered a fleet, chased them down, captured them, then crucified them as promised. He slit their throats before crucifying them to shorten their suffering.
  17. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I liked the episode, personally. I have this great "suspension of believability" ability.
  18. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Which would have made an excellent story, with Star Wars tweaks as appropriate, but instead...we got Dooku Captured. [face_sigh]
  19. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    I thought it was refreshing to show that Jedi and Sith aren't that OP. It would be boring if they were. If Dooku is that great, why doesn't he always fight at the front lines with Grievous? I figured it was because he's extremely manipulative and avoids battle whenever possible. If that's the case, why would he lower himself to combat pirates? Also, in captivity he was still in many ways a threat, since he had the entire Separatist army, the pirates were concerned Dooku easily lay waste to their planet.
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  20. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    How could he possibly use mind tricks on every pirate? He could trick one or two, but the others would still notice him (which we see later on when they try to escape their cell). Not to mention that Hondo is not that "weak minded" to fall for one.
  21. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    I enjoyed this episode, the show didn't do Dooku justice, but it's better then the Grievous treatment.
  22. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Umm, have you met Hondo? The guy's about as weak-minded as they come. He's always changing his mind and isn't disciplined or steel-willed at all.

    Hondo: As my sweet mother always said, one hostage is good, two is better and three well that's just good business.

    And let's not get into how a group of younglings were able to outwit the famous pirate of Florrum.

    All Dooku had to do was wave his hand and say:

    "I'm not the Sith you're looking for, just a poor old man."

    Hondo: "He's no Sith, just a feeble old geezer. Throw him out."

    Sidious was able to mind-trick Grievous, so Dooku shouldn't have a problem with Hondo.
  23. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    When the younglings outwitted him he was heavily intoxicated IIRC.
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  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Sith Lords ought to be able to hold their liquor better, but I suppose Plagueis is proof that they can't.

    I found where I reviewed this episode back in January; that's probably the only time I reviewed it as I didn't start watching TCW until season 2 and wasn't a regular in LACWAC until the end of season 4. To be honest this episode was not memorable at all to me and I had to go back and look at what I typed, but apparently I liked Hondo and the monkey lizard.

    Here
  25. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I disagree. And changing his mind doesn't make him a easy target for mind tricks.

    Never heard of that.