Dooku left the Jedi Order AFTER TPM

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by ROYCE_DARKLIGHTER, Jul 9, 2002.

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  1. ROYCE_DARKLIGHTER Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 1
    I have been reading many ppl saying that Dooku was already in league with Sidious during the evenets of TPM. That is rubbish. He joined the Sith AFTER TPM because Qui-Gon dying was the final straw. Also, how could he have been a Sith when there were already two, Sidious and Maul?

    Sidious needed a new apprentice after Maul died and didnt exactly have time to train someone from birth so he did the next best thing, converted an experienced Jedi Master who wanted out of the order and had been tinkering with Sith teachings for most of his life.
    whostheBossk likes this.
  2. Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 6
  3. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    you are correct. but some can't handle the truth
  4. Frank_Palpatine TFN Video Encoder • JC Icon Artist

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    What many people believe is rubbish. Don't let it bother you.

    Your theory is indeed the correct one. :)
  5. ROYCE_DARKLIGHTER Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 1
    Thankx for responses, they show me that there are ppl on these boards who are not stupid like the majority are. Plenty of the ideas and responses you read are out of this world.
  6. Nemrac Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2001
    Where did this common opinion of Dooku becoming a Sith because of Qui-Gon come from? How do we know he became a Sith 10 years ago? I don't recall anything in the film saying, or heck, even implying that being the case.

    In fact, Dooku almost makes light of Qui-Gon's death. He chooses to use this fact to lure in Obi-Wan! I Why in the galaxy would he become a Sith? Qui-Gon's death by A SITH? That doesn't jive (unless he REALLY didn't like Qui-Gon).

    Ultimately, I don't believe we have any reason to think Qui-Gon had ANYTHING to do with Dooku's decision to become evil.
  7. Darth_OlsenTwins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Where did this common opinion of Dooku becoming a Sith because of Qui-Gon come from?

    I believe that it stemmed from the AOTC novel.
  8. Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 6
    If/when you see the deleted scene, you will see the light. Jocasta explains all.

    [image=http://www.sgtfretsurfer.com/Grilled-Sarlacc/c/kenobi/jocasta.jpg]
  9. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    "Where did this common opinion of Dooku becoming a Sith because of Qui-Gon come from? How do we know he became a Sith 10 years ago? I don't recall anything in the film saying, or heck, even implying that being the case."

    I personally don't think that Dooku is lying to Obi-Wan. Remember that Dooku says that Nute Gunray came to him and told him everything after nobody else would believe his story of being in league with the Sith. This implies that Dooku was still a Jedi and a part of the Republic. His disdain over how the events in TPM were handled by the Jedi Council leads to his departing the Order. Some of this will be explained in "the lost twenty" discussion that was cut from the film.

    "In fact, Dooku almost makes light of Qui-Gon's death. He chooses to use this fact to lure in Obi-Wan! I Why in the galaxy would he become a Sith? Qui-Gon's death by A SITH? That doesn't jive (unless he REALLY didn't like Qui-Gon)."

    Dooku isn't making "light" of Qui-Gon's death, I think that he really believes that Qui-Gon would have joined him and the Seperatist movement. Who's to say that he wouldn't join the Seperatist cause, at least if he was oblivious to the Sith's involvement. That's the real question, now isn't it. Would Qui-Gon have been blinded to the Sith's involvement, or would he have been suspicious of his old master? Remember, Dooku doesn't reveal that he is actually in league with the Sith until the saber fight. He isn't offering Obi-Wan a spot in the Sith order, but rather in the Seperatist movement. He was offering Obi-Wan the same thing that he would have offered Qui-Gon Jinn.

    Consider the possibility that Dooku is doing this because he has truly lost his faith in the Republic. Perhaps he really believes that the Seperatists will be a better government. He wants to find the best way to achieve this, but ends up letting the dark side lead him awry. He may very well think that what he is doing is right and may be planning on betraying Sidious when the time is right. But there is one thing he has forgotten, "once you start down the path of the Dark Side, forever will it dominate your destiny".
  10. Jek-Porkins Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Naw, Dooku doesn't care at all for the separatist. It's just one piece in the puzzle that Sidious is putting together. As far as turning on Sidious, this may me true. He makes it pretty apparent that he enjoys his new power. He did it for the power of the Dark Side.
  11. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Actually....

    we don't know a darned thing-do we? The Jedi believe there is only two Sith...no more, no less.... The also said that Kimono didn't exsist in their record. And if the Jed don't have it in their record...it doesn't exsist....

    Dooku claimed that he was going to fight the sith. He tells Obi-wan that the Sith is influencing the Senate. He forgets to mention that the Sith has actually become the Chancelor and that he is working for Sith.

    No my friends...the order shortly after the events of TPM. Tyranus hired Jango to make the clones.

    And all this information about "The chosen one" Qui-gon probabbly got it from his mentor....Dooku.

  12. bountyhunter2999 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 4
  13. Jek-Porkins Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    I don't think Qui got the chosen one stuff from his master (Dooku). When Qui talks of a convergence in the force Mace and the entire counsel know that he refers to the prophecy of the chosen one. The one that will bring balance to the force. So I believe that it's common knowledge, to the Jedi anyway.
  14. DarthBane93 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 1999
    star 4
    "Dooku left the Jedi Order AFTER TPM"

    And they say you dont learn something new everyday.
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Taken from various sources:

    Count Dooku was always curious about the Sith. During his training under Yoda, Dooku would consult the Sith Holocron. He made it a point to learn about this Sith, for whatever reasons. He found that this period of turmoil in the Jedi Order to be interesting. Yoda tried to disuade him from studing the dark side history. During this time, he also learned about the prophecy of the Chosen One. Something he had discussed with Qui-gon many times. This is why he figured that it was Anakin, based on the details of his past that he learned. Dooku thought that it could be anyone, including him. When he learned about Qui-gon's discovery of the Sith, he was most curious. After Naboo, Nute wanted to speak to the Jedi Council about Darth Sidious. Dooku took it upon himself to speak with him. From there, based on the information provided, he would've figured it out. That Palpatine is Sidious as Sidious has nothing to gain from taking Naboo. It's not the Sith's style. After meeting with him, Dooku struck a deal with Palpatine. Information about the dark side teachings, in exchange for helping him achieve his goal of total control. His anger and hate was focused on the Jedi, coupled with his desire for power, lead to his becoming a Sith Lord. Needing Dooku, Palpatine agreed. From there, Dooku lied to Nute about Sidious as there would be no reason for the Jedi to ignore information about the Sith. Yoda and Mace make it clear that they are still looking for the other Sith Lord. They would want to know anything Nute had to say. Dooku then went to the Archives to do two things. One was to erase Kamino, but the other was to search for his homeworld of Serreno. Dooku knows that he has a vast fortune and the name of his home, but not the location. Dooku then quit the Jedi Order and returned him to claim his inheritence. He disappeared for nearly 9 years. During this time, he recruited Jango Fett and took up the name Sifo-Dyas, in order to create the Clone Army. As Dexter Jester told Obi-wan, the Kamioans love those with big wallets. After that, he continued to study the ways of the Sith and resurfaced on Raxus Prime as the leader of the CIS.
  16. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    Very interesting! Where did all this info come from DARTH-SINISTER?
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I'm glad you asked. As I said, taken from various sources.

    AOTC established that Dooku quit the Jedi Order. We know from the novelization that Dooku was considered one of the Lost 20. ESB, TPM, AOTC and the Jedi Apprentice series established that Jedi are taken from birth to 4 years of age. The AOTC visual directory tells us that Dooku was between 2-4 years old when he was taken. He remembers that his homeworld is Serreno and that his family was upper class. An arrogant attitude first developed and Yoda took it upon himself to make sure that he wouldn't have it later in life. Also established there, Dooku was curious about all aspects of the Force, including the dark side and the history of the Sith. Yoda didn't approve and did his best to disuade him. The AOTC RPG established that Dooku studied up on the Chosen One and the Prophecy and told Qui-gon all about it. Dooku even thought that he might be it, but Qui-gon wasn't sure. It wasn't until he met Anakin that he knew for sure. AOTC established that Dooku had met with Nute, following Naboo. Dooku said that Nute had told him about Darth Sidious and that he had told the Jedi Council, but they laughed him off. We all know this to be a lie, as Yoda and Mace are still trying to find the other Sith. They would take any info he has, the same as they wanted to question Jango about "Sifo-Dyas". It's apparent that Dooku, intrigued by the return of the Sith, he kept it to himself. He reasoned that there had to be more to this, than simply taking over one meesly little world. He would've put it all together and discover that Palpatine is Sidious and confronted him. Since he didn't kill Sidious, it stands to reason that he was corrupted by the dark side and joined him. Possibly striking up a bargin. A new apprentice to be taught the secrets of the Sith, while he would do whatever it was that he wanted.

    Since Dooku needed the inheritence to fund the Clone Army, with no questions asked, he had to find Serreno. Best place to do it, the Jedi Archives. Also, since the plan to make a Clone Army was in place, he needed to erase Kamino. Well, two birds with one stone. All sources establish that Dooku left the Jedi Order and returned to his homeworld and took up his inheritence. The visual directory and the Holonet News site, said that Dooku went underground afterwards. We know that Dooku's Sith name is Tyranus, he hired Jango Fett. Since Palpatine/Sidious is busy and most likey well known as Supreme Chancellor, Dooku would've been the one to do it as Sifo-Dyas. I could be wrong there, but I think that's about what it is. Anyway, now that that was done, he returnd to Courscant and began his Sith training. Holonet News established that Dooku resurfaced on Raxus Prime.

    Now, while parts are considered eu. (AOTC RPG and the Sith Holocron, everything else is a canon source.) Putting the pieces together tells us that Dooku left after the Battle of Naboo.
  18. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    Ah, the old EU debate...
    The only canon is the movies.

    They don't answer this question.

    Result: You're left to ponder. What makes the most sense (IMO) is Sidious luring him in after Qui-Gon's death.
  19. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    Thanks DARTH-SINISTER, That was very interesting information!
  20. MachinatingMachiavel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 2
    makes perfect sense. Anything else would just be stupid.

    It was explained in the TPM novel (yeah yeah yeah perhaps EU)that the sith don't want to operate in more than pairs - a master and an apprentice. Otherwise, since they're based on greed and not cooperation, the third will cause in-fighting and try to overthrow the master/apprentice pair.

    heh, sounds like the behaviour of starving wild dogs in a kennel
  21. whostheBossk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2002
    star 4
    Was Dooku a member of the Jedi Council before he left. I think he was and it will be revealed to us. One of the 12 has to be a traitor based off of the Bible's 12 apostles with there being a traitor. I thought it might be Mace, but Dooku must have been a member under the name "Sifo Dyas". Obi-Wan just never "Crossed his Path" or knew him or his name.
  22. Ret Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 1999
    star 6
    Well we don't have any evidence he wasn't other than he wasn't a member in TPM. But it just doesn't seem like it.
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Dooku was never a Council member. Like Qui-gon, he was to hardheaded to gain the position. Sifo-Dyas died prior to TPM, as Ki-Adi-Mundi was a Knight and was recently asked to join the Council. The Council is more like the Knights of the Roundtable, than the appostles.

    Dooku was one of the Jedi who boned up on the prophecy of the Chosen One. He was very curious about it and wanted to know more. It may tie into the Living Force theory and he was very interested in that.
  24. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    How about this:

    Sidious: "Don't worry, your smart apprentice who realizes the importance of this child will be dispatched."

    Dooku: "But what of YOUR other Apprentice?"

    Sidious: "I have forseen that he is no longer as important to me as you are. Only together can we take true political control and use this child to our advantage." (a lie of course)

    There are many unanswered questions about the timeline of Dooku and, - thanks to the deleted scene - his point of leaving is now less clear.

    However, there is no counterproof to the following statement: Just because there are always two doesn't mean that the Sith Master wouldn't be cultivating a "next apprentice" (for information or training) while the "old apprentice" (in this case Maul) is outliving his usefulness.

    Think about the stages of Sidious' plan. In Maul, he needed a strongman - someone good with a saber to do "tough" duty.

    But he could well have expected that for the next part of his master plan (political domination) he needed someone with more political suave and credibility - i.e., Dooku.

    The "rule of two" may be founded upon distrust...but it may have more to do with expendability and the need to form differing alliances. When Maul's time came, there was no more need of him. You don't see the recovery of Maul's body in any scenes, do you? :p

    Dooku had to be in league with Sidious - at the moment of Maul's death, he erased Kamino, ordered the Clones from a Jedi location and got out. (All ten years ago) Qui Gon's death formed the perfect reason. Even though Qui Gon's death was orchestrated, because QUi Gon was the strongest believer that Anakin's proper training could have freed the Jedi of their blind arrogance!

  25. whostheBossk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2002
    star 4
    But what about the reference to Sifo Dyas being on the Council? IF Dooku is Sifo Dyas that is.
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