Dooku/Tyrannus makes no sense...

Well, it's been a LONG time since I last posted here, but something has really gotten me thinking, and and I can't seem to find a suitable explanation anywhere...

It has to do with a conclusion I reached while watching the new Clone Wars movie at the theater. In the film, as you know, Dooku is searching for ways to weaken the position of Republic forces, so that his droid army can take over the galaxy. Fine. I mean Dooku is the leader of the seperatists, and the republic opposes his aims. Right? All was well until about thirty minutes into it, when something dawned on me...

Didn't Dooku, himself, as Tyrannus, recruit Jango Fett to serve as template for the ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC? Didn't Dooku leave Geonosis and report directly to CHANCELLOR PALPATINE that the war had begun, and that this was a good thing? For years, I've followed the story line, which is that Palpatine is playing both sides against one another, in a plot to destroy the Jedi and seize power for himself, and that Dooku, his Sith apprentice, was naturally his right hand man in all of this. That's the impression you get from the films...but if that's true, why would Dooku then go out of his way to ACTUALLY attempt to defeat the REPUBLIC? Why wouldn't he actively pursue the defeat of the droids, or prolong the war in ways that didn't actually strengthen the confederacy?

I'm beginning to wonder if the story line, when you really think about it, makes any sense at all.

I'm hoping that one of you will have the answer here that will restore my faith in the saga. As it stands, it seems that what I once thought was a tremendously well crafted epic of political intrigue is actually a nonsensical mess.

Thanks.

 

He's not actually trying to win; he's making it look like he's trying to win. Sidious, as you said, is his Master, and it's obviously set up so that the Republic is the "winning" side. The entire point of the Outer Rim Sieges was to draw the Republic forces all across the galactic plane so that Coruscant would be vulnerable enough to attack in ROTS.

No offense meant, but you're underestimating the level of control Sidious had over the Confederacy forces. They did pretty much whatever he told them to do.

 

Dooku founded the Separatist Movement on Sidious's orders since it was their eventual plan to push the two sides into a war. Thus Dooku was not actually trying to defeat the Republic, just making it look that way to his allies. The Sith just wanted to spin the war out for long enough until they implemented Order 66 and the founding of the Empire.

So although he technically wasn't trying to win the war, Dooku probably commanded the armies as if he was trying to defeat the Republic since all the other commanders had no knowledge of his and Palpatine's schemes and just tried to win the war. It's just that the superior Republic forces tended to defeat the Separatists. If the Separatists ever got the upper hand, I'm sure Palpatine would have contacted Dooku and told him that the Separatists needed to take a dive in the next few battles. Dooku would then have seen to it that the Separatists lost their advantage by making some tactical errors, whilst making it look convincing to his allies.

 

I see what you're saying. I guess the war had to be prolonged for a certain period in order to give Sidious time to put things in place for his all conquering final plan of exterminating the Jedi and seizing total galactic control. The Seperatists needed to be seen as a threat of sufficient magnitude to scare the Republic into handing over so called emergency powers to Palpatine. A few victories would help to create this impression.

 

Dooku really is trying his hardest to destroy the republic. But he knows that the real winners will be the sith, not the republic or the seperatists. He looks forward to the new Sith Empire, which is really the republic and seperatist planets united.

He probably takes orders from Sidious on a daily basis. And he knows that eventually the seperatists will fall, but he also knows the republic will also fall shortly after. Dont think general grevious knew the full story though.

 

Tyranus has no reason to want the war to end quickly. The longer the war goes on, the more the Jedi will be spread out and the more the Dark Side will grow given that both sides have been manipulated into doing the bidding of the Sith. They intend for the Republic to win eventually as it's less trouble for Palpatine to simply turn that into an Empire than to have the CIS take over the galaxy, but they want to strengthen he Sith and the Dark Side as much as possible by maintaining a stalemate for as long as possible.

 

The entire Clone Wars was fought to put Palpatine in total control, and to serve as a backdrop for Order 66. Count Dooku knew that he was only pretending to lead the Separatists, he knew that the purpose was never to "win". The entire thing was a sham, a con...and Dooku was in on it...mostly. He obviously wasn't in on the plans aboard the Invisible Hand...lol

 

Now look, I know what you guys are saying. And it fits the story line...but this new movie, the Clone Wars, pretty much CLEARLY shows Dooku trying to weaken the Republics chances and create victory for the droids. I mean, he's trying to turn the Hutts, over whom he has no control, against the Jedi...against the Republic. I mean I could see if it was just Dooku, who could take a dive in a battle and set the deck for the Republic, but if it's the Hutts...are they going to take a dive?

I'm telling you...it's pretty flimsy.

 

That would be a flaw in the Clone Wars movie, then. But, did you consider that weakening the Republic during the Clone Wars might actually strengthen his Master's grip on it? The more the Republic is weakened and still wins, the less resources are available to any possible insurgency that objects to Sidious's absolute rule. Call it point-shaving. Dooku knows the Republic will win, but, it is his job to make sure they don't win by too much.

 

I thought the SOLE purpose for the Outer Rim Sieges was to keep Skywalker away from Padme. Palpatine's three pronged goal was to overthrow the Republic, turn Skywalker and destroy the Jedi Order, maybe not in that order... but all three were directly tied to one another.

 

the SOLE purpose? Not sure about that - but it did achieve it. That and to mislead the Jedi would be the main objectives I think...

 

Furthermore, the focus of the Clone Wars cannot be on the Republic vs. the Separatists. The Sith's goal was to destroy the Jedi and thereby become the rulers of the galaxy. It didn't matter to the Sith whether the Republic stood or fell because ultimately the Sith would consolidate power and create an eternal empire for a Sith dynasty. Once the Sith's mortal enemies, the Jedi, were destroyed or irreparably fractured, the Sith could easily achieve its goals.

Of course, Palpatine's and the Sith's greatest weakness is overconfidence. Palpatine overlooked Padme's love for her children and Anakin's ability to see through the Sith's facade and his love for his son.

 

"Soon the Jedi will be at war not only with you, Count, but with the Hutt clan, as well" (or something like that)

Seems to me that's the real goal of involving the Hutts here. To weaken the Jedi.

As others have stated, the point here is to destroy the Jedi. And to gain control over the Galaxy. The Republic is a vastly superior organization and army compared to the CIS. So, Dooku needs to be able to gather powerful allies to prolong the fight. If he fails to do this, the war ends to quickly, and Palpatine cannot seize more power.

 

Yes, I don't see what the objection is. The Hutts are being used to further weaken and distract the Jedi. The more Palpatine can keep the Jedi busy, and diminishing in number, he's achieving his goals at this stage in the Saga. Dooku is the figurehead of the operation, so his actions are in line with Palpatine/Sidious' ultimate purposes: to weaken the Republic and to destroy the Jedi.

The war is a distraction, an illusion of sorts, a shadow-play. But the show must go on; the illusion must be maintained. Dooku must direct the war as though he wishes to win it.

 

I guess the issue of whether this is a problmatic piece of plotting is how much control one believes Sidious has over proceedings. I think the idea in the story is that his influence is very comprehensive, whether it be over the Senate, the Separatists, the Hutts or anyone else.

 

So you're all arguing then that Sidious is in ABSOLUTE control of the situation, and does not fear whatever impact the Hutts may have. I guess the logic is that the CIS can't win because they are under Dooku's direction, and he wouldn't allow them to win.

That's fair enough.

 

I ofter wondered about that too. I think that the main goal was to create a conflict which would destroy the galaxy more, and Palpatine would win both ways - either as Emperor palpatine or as Sidious if the Seperatists had won. So he can't lose.