Clone Wars Dooku's Ambitions

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Vialco, Nov 12, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    In several Clone Wars episodes, Dooku makes reference to his desire to overthrow Sidious with first Ventress, and then Savage. Do you think we'll see any more of this in future material?

    Maybe Dooku will offer Maul and Savage an alliance, and they all band together to take on Sidious.

    Or, perhaps Dooku will find another apprentice, and teach him/her the ways of the Dark Side.

    Discuss.
  2. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    I remember in the RotS novel it seems clear that Dooku believes he knows that the CIS and droid army is just a plot to establish a new sith empire, with him as the Emperor's right hand man once he is captured.
    However, TCW (to my knowledge) has so far not revealed how much the count actually knows so at this point does Dooku genuinely believe that the CIS needs to win?

    Maybe what Vialco says is a possibility and Maul and Savage will team up with Dooku in an attempt to defeat Sidious but I think that it's more likely that if he does sheme Palpatines downfall he'll do so without getting his own hands dirty.

    I'm not sure where it fits in with the timeline, but as we've already seen Quinlan Vos in an episode could we see a comic to TCW adaptation of Vos as Dooku's apprentice?
    TreborSabreon likes this.
  3. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    As far as I am concerned, the show and it's writers just does not know how to use Dooku.
    They do not know what to do with him...
  4. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    I love it any time the show offers a glimpse of the inner workings of the Sith and of course betrayal lies right at the heart of the Order, so I imagine we may see further attempts by Dooku on the life of Sidious.

    My main concern is that the storyline between the two Lords makes sure to eventually tie in to what we know of their arrangement as of the opening act of ROTS. Dooku is indeed led to believe by Sidious that the plan is for the formation of an Empire, with Dooku surviving the war as a captive prisoner (only to be given a full pardon) and Anakin Skywalker serving as commanding General of a new Sith Army.

    As Dark-Fox references, most of what we know comes from the discussion held between Dooku and Sidious aboard Grievous' ship, just prior to the Count's duel with Kenobi and Skywalker (with Dooku's inner monologue aboard during this scene offering much insight), as depicted in Matthew Stover's excellent novelization (where Dooku, so overcome at the impending climax of the Sith Grand Plan, finds that his eyes have 'misted').
    Dark-Fox likes this.
  5. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Dooku needs to make a move.

    You give someone independence like that, especially when betrayal is a common theme within the philosophy, and it's just begging for trouble. For Dooku to sit on his hands and stay loyal to Sidious and not develop his own ambitions further would ruin the character for me.

    Holy Roman Empire, Feudal Japan, China, etc. show what happens when a ruler gives a lot of authority to a subordinate and then fails to properly administer their realm and keep that subordinate in check, or when their own power falls in relation to their subordinate. It leads to coups/de facto independence/war.

    Vader was principally a military leader of the Empire aboard the Imperial flagship, he was working with a bunch of officers whose loyalty was to the Emperor. Being a part of that chain of command would have allowed Palpatine to keep Vader under control.

    With Dooku, Palpatine gives him control over a huge chunk of the galaxy, gives him a massive droid army, and Dooku commands the loyalty of vast sums of wealth and subordinates that are either oblivious to Sidious, or might not care one way or another if Dooku usurps him. And in relation to the war between the CIS and Republic, those subordinates want to see the CIS win, Dooku could defeat Palpatine and remove him from power/execute him and eliminate his master from the equation without the Galaxy even realizing that a coup within the Sith had even occurred. On top of this Dooku was allowed to keep Asajj as an apprentice/"assassin" for a time and then had Savage as a secret apprentice. Add to this that Sith philosophy pretty much advocates overthrowing your master when you see an opportunity and take power by any means and how can Dooku NOT revolt?

    With Palpatine shifting his attention to Maul, how can Dooku not have ambition and see an opportunity to rebel? Dooku being sincere in his devotion to Sidious makes for a lame Sith that misses the point, and if he's holding out for an Empire under Palpatine and fails to see the potential to create an Empire for himself by overthrowing Palpatine with the independence he has been granted and the vast resources at his disposal that even Vader did not have, then Dooku is an idiot.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Nov 13, 2012
  6. DavidIX Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    I don't know why Dooku just didn't catch Sidious off guard when he was playing the palpatine role. Well nevermind I do know- PLOT NECESSITY.
  7. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Several great points made in this thread so far. It's really discouraging that a villain with such potential -- Qui-Gon's Master! -- has been utterly wasted over the years. I simultaneous love and despise that scene in AOTC when he's talking to Obi-Wan -- he had so many conflicting emotions in that single scene! But we never saw that Dooku again. Certainly not in TCW. He's become a simple yes-man for Palpatine, and he doesn't even seem to care all that much about his little side projects (i.e. Savage, Asajj). He's a man with no plan.

    And now we've got Maul back, the very man who killed his apprentice and former comrade in arms, and Dooku doesn't seem to give a womprat's behind.
  8. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Been there, done that, with RotS novelization and Labyrinth of Evil.
  9. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Umm...

    There is no way in all the fires of Mustafar that Darth Maul would ever align himself with the man whom he calls: "The Sith Pretender".

    IMO: Maul hates him worse than any Jedi not named Kenobi.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  10. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    I sense a confrontation between Maul and Dooku may be on the horizon, though I'm pretty sure it would be a one-sided fight.

    Although, if the Opress twins tag-team, the good Count may very well lose his head.
  11. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    they don't really know what to do with Grievous either, besides comic relief. although the last episode might make me think there is hope.

    Actually, when was the last time we saw Dooku?
  12. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    We saw the good Count appear on Onderon via hologram, just a part of his daily telecommuting.

    He engaged in a routine cost-cutting measure and ordered the Confederacy troops to depart Onderon for more lucrative pastures. Sadly, King Sanjay Rash was a loose end and needed to be terminated via battle droid, an unpleasant but necessary practice that Dooku seems to do quite often these days.

    Still, it's a pity that Dooku can't show up in person, employees are so much more productive when their superior is there in the flesh. Alas, the duties of a Sith Lord and revolutionary idealist are too demanding for Dooku to make a house call. I'm sure King Rash understands, after all a blaster shot is much quicker than a Force choke.
  13. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    You are right. Villains in general are a weakness of the writers of this show. But Massacre and Bound of Rescue has given me hope for Grievous.
    TreborSabreon likes this.
  14. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    the only "villain" they seem to be keeping consistent is Palpatine.

    but yes, HOPE FOR GRIEVOUS.
  15. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    True! Palpatine has been portrayed the best.

    But Hope always remains...
    Last edited by Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan, Nov 18, 2012
    Darth_Kiryan likes this.
  16. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Word.. There's no way in hell Maul and Savage will ever ally with Tyranus.
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  17. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Looking in universe (and ignoring the foreknowledge that Vader was a Jedi turned Palpatine's apprentice), I would think it would be just as unlikely that Palpatine would take an ex-Jedi for an apprentice, given his training from Plagueis and how he would have been raised to hate the Jedi just as much as Maul would. I would see no reason as to why Maul would be more adherent to the idea that an ex-Jedi cannot be a formidable Sith and why when it comes to trying to take on Sidious, the two would not see the value of each other.
    Seerow likes this.
  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Well, Palpatine hating Jedi yet taking an ex-Jedi as an apprentice makes sense if you're going for evil lulz, it's a big middle finger to the Jedi to take one of their own and turn them into what they hate most.

    I would imagine Maul would feel a natural rivalry toward Dooku simply because Dooku took Maul's old job and therefore any relationship between them would be strained from the outset.
  19. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Yep... he'd rather cut himself in half; vertically, before he joined-up with that clown.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  20. Darth Georgia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    I do hope we get to see a Dooku versus Maul one on one battle. I mean c'mon who doesn't want to see them throw down?
  21. GeneralCIS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2012
    star 1
    Dooku needs another aprentice! It would be cool to see an episode or arc where Dooku plots to overthrow Sidious.
  22. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Honestly I really don't like the idea of Dooku plotting to betray Sidious right now. Palpatine's goals line up pretty well with Dooku goals I think, and I don't think Dooku can accomplish his goals without Palpatine. At the very least, Palpatine makes Dooku's job much easier, it makes no sense for Dooku to kill Palpatine now. Why not just wait until the mission is accomplished, and then off him?

    I think turning Dooku into just another Sith with an obsessive compulsive to kill his master is a mistake.

    The idea also doesn't appeal to me because I know Dooku can't win, not just because we know the future, but because Dooku is no match for Palpatine, even teamed with Ventress or Maul. This is assuming Dooku can even force a confrontation that Palpatine would just walk right into unprepared.
  23. ninjaofthenight801 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2011
    star 1
    Dooku is just a Sith Pretender.

    I don't know why, but it's one of the few lines from the trailer I couldn't get out of my head.
  24. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Much rather have Anakin vs Maul....
    Darth_Kiryan likes this.
  25. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Same here. Anakin vs Maul would be badass and it would show that Anakin was serious about fighting Sith before he switched sides.
    cwustudent likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.